Part 91 "Reimbursement Agreement", and the legality thereof.

[averettpilot]

You pay FOs 180k though. We're literally talking about two different things, and I'd wager that at that salary, unless you're just a horrible place personality/schedule/management wise, you don't need a contract in the first place. Even then there's going to be a conversation about the things mentioned above that can't be foreseen as reasons why I might have to leave in that first year. It's not my fault you fly a plane that had a 100k type rating. Hire typed pilots or it's the cost of business.

I'm talking about places that pay 25-30k, schedule you 24/7 on call/rolling rest and then threaten to fire you if you don't comply and threaten to come after you for the training contract.

We're talking about different ends of the spectrum. So if you're interviewing for a bottom feeder, no, don't sign training contracts.

 

[dustoff17]

FO at $180? Where do I sign up??

Seriously, to the OP, based on your post, they have you by the .....well, you get it. The company has left you no choice but to remain an employee until you retire or until you save up enough money to leave. They literally OWN YOU for the rest of your flying career. An attorney is key but you don't want the reputation of suing employers either (especially if your current one knows all the players in the area). Tough situation....

Agree that you should post the name so other can/will avoid.

OR you could write up EVERY maintenance issue that you find and don't be generous!

 

[Fireflights]

FO at $180? Where do I sign up??

Seriously, to the OP, based on your post, they have you by the .....well, you get it. The company has left you no choice but to remain an employee until you retire or until you save up enough money to leave. They literally OWN YOU for the rest of your flying career. An attorney is key but you don't want the reputation of suing employers either (especially if your current one knows all the players in the area). Tough situation....

Agree that you should post the name so other can/will avoid.

OR you could write up EVERY maintenance issue that you find and don't be generous!

The bright spot in this: The current boss agreed to match the salary at the job I was forced to back out of, so I hooked an instant 8k/year increase, with another 7k/year raise in 6 months.
So he's paying my ransom out of his own pocket with no further impact on mine. (Other than lost opportunity at the new job, obviously...)
I'll have the recurrency cost saved in under a year. $7,400.00 to leave a job that's holding me as a financial hostage. Livin' the dream, right?
I'm planning on making the situation public just as soon as I'm safely away, but word's already getting around locally. They've really s**t their bed on getting someone else in after me! or so I've been told.
As for MX issues, it's an '89 DA-10/100. MX is already the most expensive part of ownership. And generosity's on the bus outta town.

 

[Lucky8888]

[QUOTE="averettpilot, post: 2590278, member:
I'm talking about places that pay 25-30k, schedule you 24/7 on call/rolling rest and then threaten to fire you if you don't comply and threaten to come after you for the training contract.

We're talking about different ends of the spectrum. So if you're interviewing for a bottom feeder, no, don't sign training contracts.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Your "experience" must be rather limited. We are fast approaching the $100K type rating. So, for a $180K FO, we are in it for a first year cost of $280K give or take. That's more than our senior executives make. Are we going to make that kind of investment with no guarantee a guy/gal isn't going to stick around? No way. Our training contracts (initial type only - we don't do them for recurrent) are prorated daily and the people we've done it for thought it was fair. We've only had one person leave in the last four years.

The point being is just because corporate departments have training contracts does not mean they are "bottom feeders." I would just say the opposite.

I've been involved with a few aircraft purchases and they came with a certain number of paid training events.

You treat people well and guess what, no 100k events. I signed a training contract with an operator for the same reason you stated but it was a 900C, so it was a 1/3rd of the cost and I started at under 100K. Still a lot of money and I understood the reasoning for the contract. It was prorated.

Year 2. No contract.

But then year 3 they think I may leave and they want me to sign one. So I left.

 

[splash]

Geeeez the lawyers are looking for easy cheeze money anyway possible these days. This is most likely the worse place to post a question like this.

No, they can't hold you to a stinking contract. It's a scare tactic. Go back and take the job you were offered. Let them fuss and threaten all they want. They can't do a damn thing and don't pay a lawyer so he can drag this thing out to make money off of you. No one can legally force you to work for them! Get creative, tell them you lost your medical when you lost control of your car on the road while experimenting with a new mental health pill. You bought the meds from a guy off the web named splash that had papers saying he was a doctor. You can't stop taking the meds cause you are under a contract here to. Reach for a higher ground and don't let'em stop ya.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I wouldn't do that but.

I wouldn't pay and fight paying in court for sure.

Drag it out as long as possible.

 

[Fireflights]

I wouldn't do that but.

I wouldn't pay and fight paying in court for sure.

Drag it out as long as possible.

That's kinda the plan now. Save up the ransom (for lawyers or, worst case, to pay him off.), get my legal ducks in a row before taking it further, and find something else ASAP.
There's an uneasy truce as of today's flights... He's made sure my first increase went through, and there was some awkward small talk. But given that he's on the plane 90% of the time, and I'm half of the only crew he's got, means that we're in direct contact all the time.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

That's kinda the plan now. Save up the ransom (for lawyers or, worst case, to pay him off.), get my legal ducks in a row before taking it further, and find something else ASAP.
There's an uneasy truce as of today's flights... He's made sure my first increase went through, and there was some awkward small talk. But given that he's on the plane 90% of the time, and I'm half of the only crew he's got, means that we're in direct contact all the time.

I flew with the same guy for 3 years every single time.

He tried to get me to sign a training contract in October last year, because I found out I wouldn't get any time off for the birth of my first kid.

We worked out a deal with severance so I could leave at the end of February. Lets just say things were quite awkward for a while.

You will get through it but I bet you will hesitate to be part of a small flight department again

 

[Roger Roger]

I flew with the same guy for 3 years every single time.

He tried to get me to sign a training contract in October last year, because I found out I wouldn't get any time off for the birth of my first kid.

We worked out a deal with severance so I could leave at the end of February. Lets just say things were quite awkward for a while.

You will get through it but I bet you will hesitate to be part of a small flight department again

I haven't had anywhere near that level of weirdness and I would still love to be just a number.

 

[tiredcfi]

I would still love to be just a number.

I can arrange that!

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Geeeez the lawyers are looking for easy cheeze money anyway possible these days. This is most likely the worse place to post a question like this.

No, they can't hold you to a stinking contract. It's a scare tactic. Go back and take the job you were offered. Let them fuss and threaten all they want. They can't do a damn thing and don't pay a lawyer so he can drag this thing out to make money off of you. No one can legally force you to work for them! Get creative, tell them you lost your medical when you lost control of your car on the road while experimenting with a new mental health pill. You bought the meds from a guy off the web named splash that had papers saying he was a doctor. You can't stop taking the meds cause you are under a contract here to. Reach for a higher ground and don't let'em stop ya.

This is the reason why you shouldn't solicit legal advice over the Internet.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Geeeez the lawyers are looking for easy cheeze money anyway possible these days. This is most likely the worse place to post a question like this.

Yeah, you can tell by all the lawyers rushing in to post answers and asking for fees.

 

[splash]

Yeah, you can tell by all the lawyers rushing in to post answers and asking for fees.

My favorite is, "I can't give you any legal advice ...but I do know someone in your area that could possibly help". That one is somewhst in here, go look. One hell of a family of BS.

 

[splash]

This is the reason why you shouldn't solicit legal advice over the Internet.

I have no good cause for anyone. What I said was the worse advice in this thread, eh? Maybe you know someone the OP could "legally" speak with, eh?

 

[splash]

This. Common theme here. We can give you an idea, but not real legal advice.

I don't mean to knock the boots off your feet but if you know how to fly and you are a pilot you can take a friend flying for free. A lawyer says, "We can give you an idea, but not real legal advice". I don't understand. Why not say what law book it is in or a dirrection to start at least? It just sounds sleezy my friend. It's like a CFI not giving any books to their student to have an opportunity to grasp the knowledge he/she is looking for anywhere else but through him at CFI price. It's my biggest beef with lawyers. The lawyer career is or should be over in this sense.

 

[derg]

Remember the person that was willing to answer questions in this forum was doing so on a volunteer basis AND any attorney has reservations about doing this online.

Besides, if an attorney say "it's not legal", you still need to retain one and have him go through the specifics of your case, which might not be apparent to the person asking the question.

 

[NickH]

I don't mean to knock the boots off your feet but if you know how to fly and you are a pilot you can take a friend flying for free. A lawyer says, "We can give you an idea, but not real legal advice". I don't understand. Why not say what law book it is in or a dirrection to start at least? It just sounds sleezy my friend. It's like a CFI not giving any books to their student to have an opportunity to grasp the knowledge he/she is looking for anywhere else but through him at CFI price. It's my biggest beef with lawyers. The lawyer career is or should be over in this sense.

If I were looking for someone to fly my airplane, I wouldn't offer to mail the keys to the first responder on this forum.

 

[splash]

Is it not legal to say where it says somethng in the books about his rights? That is what I'm getting at.

 

[splash]

If I were looking for someone to fly my airplane, I wouldn't offer to mail the keys to the first responder on this forum.

Exactly, this is about the OP rights and not an airplane of yours.