Applying to the "career destination" airlines

My friend wants to clarify.

High time XJT… cool. (big positive)

XJT FO -> Another carrier because XJT was about to take a dirt nap… cool. (positive)

XJT FO-> Mesa -> PSA… ehh. (heavily neutral - was candidate chasing PIC, training failures or was an HR issue? More investigation needed)
 
jtrain609 said:
Depends on who you ask.

I was hired at XJT in 2007, and by the fall of 2008 they were kicking 350 of us to the curb and then as soon as we were gone, management came back and said that the remaining pilot group can vote in a 6% pay cut or they'll furlough another 350.

In the end, furloughing anybody was more of a negotiating tactic than anything else, and the airline ran out of control short staffed for years because they refused to bring back furloughed pilots.

I had my first chance to come back shortly before the acquisition by Skywest, which I deferred due to being in law school at the time, and my last chance to come back came a month later shortly after the acquisition. Skywest bought the company and brought everyone back and started hiring again.

So if you were junior to a July 2007 hire, it helped out in the short term, but in the long term Skywest announced that they'd park all the XJT ERJ's at a rate of 2 per month. In the next few years, I'll be surprised if anything exists of the ERJ side of XJT.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh yes, right out of the book Airline Management for Dummies chapter 1 I believe, How to modify employee behavior by threatening their livelihoods Lived it in the mid 90's at UAL when Stephen Wolfe looked like he wasn't going to get the mechanic vote for the ESOP he was trying to jam down our throats. Have an employee group that won't acquiesce? Just threaten their jobs with a token lay-off and that will do the trick. I wound up the 7th junior guy at the Oakland point and with a mortgage and my wife in college full time with myself being the sole source of income I admit, I blinked. It's an old tactic and hardly original John but very effective, I'm sorry you had to live through it.
 
Maurus said:
Been to NJC twice. It is far more cliquish than you think. Other than than the "core" group a bunch of people do know me on here. I have met a bunch of the long time members on here many times (including outside of NJC) but as I told you I suck at this networking thing. Chances are they don't remember me either. I do appreciate what you are doing but not everyone excels at being social gods.
Click to expand...
I remember you. But then again YOU BROKE MY PLANE!!!
Keep at it. You will make it.
 
Derg said:
Toastmasters! Seriously. Or just craft an "elevator pitch". Don't be the guy that walks up at the bar and expects magic to happen through basic osmosis. Here's the challenge and of course it's free advice so take it or leave it, but I'd suggest practicing. I can't tell you how many people my friend talks about that literally go to a career fair or just have a professional interaction where they can't hold a conversation or simply answer questions with one or two words. You need to know that (a) the person can do the job but most importantly, (b) is this someone I can handle spending 12 days with on a 777 pairing? Personality is absolutely essential because you will be interacting with customers, you will be interfacing with other divisions and you will be expected to have some level of social comfort with your coworkers. Here's an opportunity. There is a massive chance I may be able to connect you with people at a place you want to go, but I really don't know what your goals are. Do you want to work at my shop, or American, or Atlas, or I don't know, the Alaskan Virgin Airways, FedEx, UPS? :) I literally have no idea what you're after because you haven't reached out to at least communicate that or if you have, I've probably overlooked it seeeeeeeeew, tell me about yourself!
Click to expand...
please help the boy out! He's a good one! 8) he even has spent hours with me in a plane. Both my single and also in the attempt to instruct me in a twin.
 
Last edited:
jtrain609 said:
ExpressJet was a great airline, with great training and great people, but no business plan. And every time I hear someone talk about loyalty to ExpressJet, all I can think of is their loyalty to me when they furloughed 350 of us for 2.5 years. Yup, ExpressJet did everything they could for us, including never developing a real business plan. Amazing airline, amazing people; but losing money every quarter for almost a decade.
Click to expand...
I heard branded was coming back.
 
UAL747400 said:
With the electronic applications, what is the best way to list the other jobs you've had with one company?

Right now, I've got my current position and then in the duties description I have the other positions listed.

Would it be better to separate those out on their own in the job history section? Or would that look like I've jumped around to different companies every 6 months to someone that just glances at my application? It's my understanding that looking like you don't stay somewhere for very long can be detrimental, and I don't want appear that I've done so.
Click to expand...
 
wheelsup said:
I think most of us know what these career destination airlines want from a civ applicant. Typically 25-35, fairly fast advancement "up the food chain", check airman and/or training dept background, and no or minimal hiccups in training.

That's pretty much entry level material to get your app pulled, although it's not always the case. I know as far as UAL goes, I can count on one hand how many people I know hired there without a LCA letter but knew quite a few who got called almost as soon as they applied with that background.

For those curious, I had no internal recs at jetBlue and this resume got me called there and at Airways. Although Airways was a gimme because it was a lottery system, you just had to meet their minimums to get a call. Not really the same. Application time to interview call at jetBlue was ~5 weeks.
Click to expand...

So is the typical civilian applicant really between 25-35? Would civ applicants above 40 not have a decent shot at a major? I understand there are age discrimination laws, but if an applicant is above 40, would the chances of being hired be less? Thanks
 
TomcatG said:
So is the typical civilian applicant really between 25-35? Would civ applicants above 40 not have a decent shot at a major? I understand there are age discrimination laws, but if an applicant is above 40, would the chances of being hired be less? Thanks
Click to expand...
Take a deep breath.

The folks I've personally known that have moved on meet those specs, I certainly didn't mean to imply that others can't get hired, just look what I wrote. If you've been sitting left seat for 10 years and are still just a line pilot you might not be that competitive. Total time isn't what gets you called at the better places, it's your achievements while there, in and outside the cockpit.
 
Do many pilots consider regional airlines to be a "career destination," if they have a lot of seniority and good QOL/pay/etc?
 
Finny said:
I had kinda figured out the networking thing in the 135/91 environment, but networking in the 121 world is dramatically different. It's much harder to gauge if someone is receptive to a conversation in a quick 30 second interaction rather than spending a couple hours together in a FBO crew lounge. @Derg is 110% correct with the elevator pitch skill. Practice it on everyone. The middle aged lady behind you in the supermarket, the barber cutting your hair, literally anyone you start a conversation with. It'll make you that much more confident when performance time comes with someone who actually matters.
Click to expand...
I've spent countless hours with mainline guys in bars and restaurants all over the country (and world). Had them totally engaged with stories and jokes. I, likewise, was totally engaged with their stories. Lots of good times and fun comradery. So I don't know if that makes me a good networker or not. Bottom line is, despite all that "networking" my resume never seems to make it through the electronic HR Chinese Wall. I'll keep networking though, if that's what we want to call it. I just call it having fun, trying to learn something from others' experiences, and engaging with generally really good folks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jtrain609 said:
Also, a summary of this thread (and my career so far):

Ch1ZZRDUoAUZRwp.jpg
Click to expand...

What do you think of Peter Singer?
 
TomcatG said:
So is the typical civilian applicant really between 25-35? Would civ applicants above 40 not have a decent shot at a major? I understand there are age discrimination laws, but if an applicant is above 40, would the chances of being hired be less? Thanks
Click to expand...

Applicants above the age of 40 are not at a disadvantage when applying for the airlines. I have this on good word.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top