WaterRooster
Well-Known Member
Really? I'm pretty sure he said the same thing 3 different ways. You may want to re read it again. I'll try for you though...
TT, PIC, or Jet time is not as important as having a good attitude.
Yet another thread about interview techniques.
- Thread starter PhilosopherPilot
- Start date
Really? I'm pretty sure he said the same thing 3 different ways. You may want to re read it again. I'll try for you though...
TT, PIC, or Jet time is not as important as having a good attitude.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
If that's the case, I stand by my claim that's bad advice.
Of course you have to network and land a couple internals. Of course you have to show up to career fairs for some airlines. Of course you have to prep for the interview and interview well and "have a good attitude."
But you still need something in the logbook.
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SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Are you a recruiter?
For someone who wants to go to 121 (I think?) you sure try hard to prove it's not worth the effort.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
I really don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend.
If you can pick between two jobs. One that gives you TPIC in a Metro/1900, or one that gives you SIC in a 121 Jet. Take the 121 Jet time. It will make you more marketable. That is my one and only argument I've been trying to make these past couple of pages.
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If you can pick between two jobs. One that gives you TPIC in a Metro/1900, or one that gives you SIC in a 121 Jet. Take the 121 Jet time. It will make you more marketable. That is my one and only argument I've been trying to make these past couple of pages.
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amorris311
Well-Known Member
Are you trying to go 121 now or are you making a general observation?
WaterRooster
Well-Known Member
If you meet the minimum qualifications posted for the 121 job, you have something "in the logbook." Be it 121 jet time or Metro PIC time, it doesn't matter if you have the right attitude about it. THAT is the main point here!
You said it yourself, Networking, internals...AND attitude are the most important
jhugz
Well-Known Member
I just took a EMB 120 Job so I'll be doing that for at least a year, but before I accepted it I was trying with a couple freight 121 gigs. I was told to go get jet time even with internals. The corporate side is even worse.
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SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
What have you done outside of stacking the cheddar? Line Check Airman? Volunteerism? Job Fairs? Degree? Advanced Degree? Are you casting a wide net for 121 jobs or are you keeping it to a small select bunch? We have hired guys (through Cape Air) that have no turbine time whatsoever. Sure, it's a program, but one of many ways to skin a cat. Have you had anyone review your airlineapps for accuracy and completeness?
Outside of networking, these things add up.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
As others have mentioned it might make sense to bite the bullet and fly at a regional carrier to build that "jet" time. Either way you know what's needed and hopefully you can move on sooner rather than later.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
I was a Lead Pilot, have done IOE training, and am a couple classes away from my 4 year through UVU. Probably start a masters program after that.
Doing it all over again, I should have went to the regionals. Better opportunity to network and better time for the logbook.
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Doing it all over again, I should have went to the regionals. Better opportunity to network and better time for the logbook.
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jhugz
Well-Known Member
That's the plan. We're a single income family so I took this job and we moved in with the parents to bankroll money for the next year. I'll probably try for 6 months for a LCC or 121 freight and if that doesn't work out I'll probably just bite the bullet and fly for a regional for a bit.
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SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Hit the job fair circuit yesterday. Let the recruiters build familiarity with you, your CV, etc. When they tell you to come back with x or y, go to the next job fair and glad hand the same person and show that you've checked that box. It's not cheap, but fighting the game won't land the interview. There are some cheap(er) job fairs out there, such as Sun n Fun. OBAP in August is probably the most bang for your buck. I doubt the LCCs are going to be endless lines, so you will get a meet and greet in.
Forgive the slight thread drift, but I have a couple of suggestions that may help folks:
- Always remember that others might overhear your conversation or phone call
- If you claimed to have a certain number of hours or ratings when you submitted your app, but you really didn't and you were banking on having those hours or ratings by the time ground school started, this is called lying. Or falsifying your application. And is grounds for termination. Please refer to #1 above.
- If, during your interview, you told or implied to the Chief Pilot you would stay for a certain number of months or that you wouldn't leave immediately after reaching a particular number of hours, but you really plan to leave the minute you qualify for a regional, that is called lying. Or intentionally misleading. It also means you lack what we call character. Please refer to #1 above.
- If you hire in to a new company, no matter how much experience you have, don't get overly familiar. Remember the old saying mom and dad probably taught you: familiarity breeds contempt. If you get too familiar with anybody, you can be sure other pilots are going to share that fact. With the people who make base assignments. Or determine schedules. Or decide when it's time to send you for upgrade training. If you keep getting the short end of the stick, you might want to give some thought to how you have been behaving.
- Any time you are in a crowd of pilots, the odds are that someone in the room has more experience than you do. You may be surprised to find that some of those pilots have 100 or even 1000 times the experience you do. Spouting off endlessly about your 400 hours in a Beaver, or the fact that you wrecked a plane, or that you've scud run into a difficult runway under especially lousy conditions doesn't make you look cool. It makes you look insecure. And it calls your judgment into question. And you can be certain the people who make base assignments, determine schedules, and decide who gets upgraded will be told about your claims. Please refer to #1 above.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Like I said, no one has told me to go get any other type of flying/experience in the last year and a half... We can have a conversation in private for why I think the big 5 aren't calling, yet.
I'm only slap-ass towards specific things these days anyways. A 99, 1900, or Brasilia guy complaining about the difficulty of landing in high winds in St. Lucia, or shooting approaches in turbulence; yeah, Imma going to chuckle at them a little!
jhugz
Well-Known Member
I'm only slap-ass towards specific things these days anyways. A 99, 1900, or Brasilia guy complaining about the difficulty of landing in high winds in St. Lucia, or shooting approaches in turbulence; yeah, Imma going to chuckle at them a little!
Thats quite the macho attitude for the guy who loves to give people carpet dances for flying near convective activity.
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Tommay85
Well-Known Member
It is, but when it comes to that specific situation, those 3 planes aren't as difficult. Sorry if some light ribbing is so offensive I guess. I included the smiley emoticon even.
Not sure how that has anything to do with convective weather though...
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
That's because your flight time is valid, however there is a hundred variables that go into hiring somebody. Pound for pound, a 121 guy is gonna beat you out every single time on paper. A 121 CA, standards captain or LCA (your qualification equivalent) is about as good as it gets in the civilian world. Personality plays a roll so you have the difficult task of having to be that much better to edge out a jet jock. Especially seeing as you are plagued (like all lonely freight gigs) of having a terrible avenue for networking. We all have to network our pretty little butts off. Job fairs, stacking LORs, CP meet and greets, it's all very important, and I think it plays a much larger roll than for the 121 or jet 135 guy depending on the situation. Too many freight dawgs rest on their laurels when it comes to thinking how valuable their flying is on a resume. It's not that simple.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Well said Inverted. If it was up to me I'd hire all the Metro Drivers that I could stand overnighting with, but it isn't. I honestly think these apps and interviews are getting ridiculous but that's the game you have to play if you want the slot. I'm type riding on Friday for the Bro. I'm not saying it's great experience but it will help somewhat. At least I can now say I'm logging crew time as a PIC. You're never going to be as good of a stick as you were in the Metro, but that really doesn't matter for the big boys nor should it.
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Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't lean on or emphasize the flight time at all. It's hours in a green color paper book, that add up to the kind of crew member I am today.
I lean on the references listed on the resume and past and current additional work related duties only as selling points. If someone thinks any of the planes in my logbook are interesting, great, but I'm not sitting here thinking "Why are none of the big 5 calling me with all this Metro/EMB-120 time I've got???". My comrades/acquaintances at the regionals, who have only filled out the apps and that's it, aren't getting calls with all of their CRJ/ERJ/E-17X time either...
No, I'm not waiting for a UPS flow either. I'm not aware of anyone here or that I keep in contact on the mainland that's "resting" either.
I think you two are making this more complicated than it really is if I can be honest.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Like I said, no one has told me to go get any other type of flying/experience in the last year and a half... We can have a conversation in private for why I think the big 5 aren't calling, yet.
I'm only slap-ass towards specific things these days anyways. A 99, 1900, or Brasilia guy complaining about the difficulty of landing in high winds in St. Lucia, or shooting approaches in turbulence; yeah, Imma going to chuckle at them a little!
I thought Amflight guys were basically a shoe in for Southwest?