Applying to the "career destination" airlines

B767 said:
Very well said @jtrain609!

On the last bullet point, there's another member here that was told "I know it's out of your control, but try to become a check airman." If you KNOW it's out of one's control, then why say that?! And management isn't stupid, they see guys becoming a check airman and then leaving. Now they're looking for lifers only to be check airman.
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At the last job fair I attended, one of the guys standing in line with me had just come back from speaking with a major airline recruiter. He told me the recruiter asked him why he hadn't upgraded yet. Told the recruiter he wasn't eligible yet due to seniority. Apparently the recruiter told him to "work on upgrading". What the hell does that even mean!? Work on upgrading? In a seniority based system? And this is from a major airline recruiter.
 
Blackhawk said:
While not a requirement I was told by two individuals at your company that my five year program (I took time off to enlist in the National Guard), would hurt me, even though that was 30 years ago. Not sure how much.
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Send me an email with the specific words you were told because my friend says that is not part of the brief.
 
Derg said:
It's really a better idea to drop the concept of 'scoring' altogether because it doesn't exist.

My friend says that when your internal recommender writes the email to pilot selection, that will trigger an application review but it only works once per year.
If you attend a career fair and do really well, that will trigger an application review
Having a letter of recommendation written by an employee may trigger an application review.

and there are a number of other methods than can trigger an application review, but the concept of "scoring" is a construct of internet gossip or consulting firms that really don't understand what's going on.
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That's actually great to know, I plan on going to OBAP and hoping to wow a recruiter. This is the first I've heard that it will trigger a review. Thanks.
 
Derg said:
It's really a better idea to drop the concept of 'scoring' altogether because it doesn't exist.

My friend says that when your internal recommender writes the email to pilot selection, that will trigger an application review but it only works once per year.
If you attend a career fair and do really well, that will trigger an application review
Having a letter of recommendation written by an employee may trigger an application review.

and there are a number of other methods than can trigger an application review, but the concept of "scoring" is a construct of internet gossip or consulting firms that really don't understand what's going on.
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Sorry Derg, but per ACS' interview with AK:

"Once a candidate’s applica on has been selected for review through the process listed above, the online applica on is reviewed and scored by two separate Delta pilots."

AK uses the word "score" several times in the interview.

To me, it's a pretty minor point. You either have "the goods" or you don't. However, it does illustrate the point that applicants often get conflicting information from reliable sources...
 
poser765 said:
I've heard the same story from WAY more than one job fair attendee.
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Hell, I was told that was the key to getting hired at freaking Allegiant!

Base CP in PIE/PGD had that as his canned answer when I asked multiple questions about what the company was looking for. Granted, it was almost two years ago and I think nowadays they would take just about anybody.

His answers frustrated me so much that I never applied and I was very interested in G4 back then.
 
Mark815 said:
At the last job fair I attended, one of the guys standing in line with me had just come back from speaking with a major airline recruiter. He told me the recruiter asked him why he hadn't upgraded yet. Told the recruiter he wasn't eligible yet due to seniority. Apparently the recruiter told him to "work on upgrading". What the hell does that even mean!? Work on upgrading? In a seniority based system? And this is from a major airline recruiter.
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I think what he meant was, "hurry up and wait."
 
I think most of us know what these career destination airlines want from a civ applicant. Typically 25-35, fairly fast advancement "up the food chain", check airman and/or training dept background, and no or minimal hiccups in training.

That's pretty much entry level material to get your app pulled, although it's not always the case. I know as far as UAL goes, I can count on one hand how many people I know hired there without a LCA letter but knew quite a few who got called almost as soon as they applied with that background.

For those curious, I had no internal recs at jetBlue and this resume got me called there and at Airways. Although Airways was a gimme because it was a lottery system, you just had to meet their minimums to get a call. Not really the same. Application time to interview call at jetBlue was ~5 weeks.
 

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People don't like to hear it, but the majority of success in this business comes from plain ole dumb luck. A vast portion of aviation runs on crisis management 90% of the time.

Your resume hits the desk at the right time just as they got an airplane you're typed in.

You do a walk in just as someone quits.

You just happen to be sitting there when someone walks in.

A former student hits the powerball and buys a Citation.

Most operators at the lower and mid-levels aren't really interested in hiring Mr/Ms Right, they hire Mr/Ms Right Now.

It goes on and on, and there is certainly a "bad luck"' component (too numerous to list) that goes along with it.

People sometimes make their own luck, and some are better at it than others. But it only works to a matter of degree.

What irritates people the most is that, yes, luck is a huge part of this business, but also that the difference between "winning"'and "losing" is almost all at the last step.

Richman
 
grkero said:
I think what he meant was, "hurry up and wait."
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Agree entirely! But that's the problem! Just TELL us it's not going to happen right now, instead of jerking us around with answers that cause rumors.

wheelsup said:
For those curious, I had no internal recs at jetBlue and this resume got me called there and at Airways. Although Airways was a gimme because it was a lottery system, you just had to meet their minimums to get a call. Not really the same. Application time to interview call at jetBlue was ~5 weeks.
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And this is what's so frustrating! You read about guys who luck out and just get a call out of the blue.

I've been trying for JB for a number of years, met with a recruiter at a job fair, and I never hear a peep. I've had my resume forwarded to people within the company a few times, and even have a friend who works there that is scratching his head as to why I haven't been called for an interview since my resume and application appear solid for an FO candidate.
 
Mark815 said:
And this is what's so frustrating! You read about guys who luck out and just get a call out of the blue.

I've been trying for JB for a number of years, met with a recruiter at a job fair, and I never hear a peep. I've had my resume forwarded to people within the company a few times, and even have a friend who works there that is scratching his head as to why I haven't been called for an interview since my resume and application appear solid for an FO candidate.
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Well how does your past experience stack up? If you notice on my resume I have quantifiable results from "above and beyond" things I'd done in past jobs. Were they out of this world amazing? No, but I feel I helped show I was a contributor over and above being just an employee who punched in and punched out and went home. I was directly involved with the owners in my past experiences and helped the business grow, even as a mere CFI.

I also did college in under 3 years while doing instrument-CFII ratings with a 3.7 GPA, which shows I can hustle.

I'm not saying your resume doesn't show this, maybe it does, I have no idea, but that is potentially why I might have gotten a call over someone else. I will also say my cover letters were tailored to the employer and included key phrases such as "customer service", "communication", "fuel conservation", etc. I really don't know if that helped or not but it's not just a carbon copy of the standard cover letter/resume where jobs are listed in chronological order with a couple bullet points about your job duties.
 
wheelsup said:
Well how does your past experience stack up? If you notice on my resume I have quantifiable results from "above and beyond" things I'd done in past jobs. Were they out of this world amazing? No, but I feel I helped show I was a contributor over and above being just an employee who punched in and punched out and went home. I was directly involved with the owners in my past experiences and helped the business grow, even as a mere CFI.

I also did college in under 3 years while doing instrument-CFII ratings with a 3.7 GPA, which shows I can hustle.

I'm not saying your resume doesn't show this, maybe it does, I have no idea, but that is potentially why I might have gotten a call over someone else. I will also say my cover letters were tailored to the employer and included key phrases such as "customer service", "communication", "fuel conservation", etc. I really don't know if that helped or not but it's not just a carbon copy of the standard cover letter/resume where jobs are listed in chronological order with a couple bullet points about your job duties.
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Very similar here. No lateral moves, no gaps in employment, always moved up to a better position, lots of customer service from previous employers (Corporate), held a PIC position in turbine equipment prior to the airlines. All my cover letters are also tailored to individual employers, so for JB I include their core values within it along with my volunteering. I didn't finish school in 3yrs (Nice job btw!), but yeah, it's a crap shoot. I personally know of guys who got on with JB by what seems like dumb luck, while others, like myself, can't even seem to get noticed.

All I can do is keep applying and updating.....¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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