ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
You're just jealous
King Air crashed into FSI Witchita
- Thread starter tlewis95
- Start date
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Jets are for hot tubs!
z987k
Well-Known Member
Jets are for boats and props are for airplanes. At least if you're having fun.
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected. Lots of people running around the office saying -52. But yes according to the docket it was -42. That would make more sense if the friction locks weren't set as the FCU is spring loaded back to idle.
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
Say what you want but I'd rather screw myself through the air than suck and blow my way through.
MaRiO FDZ
JJ Abrams you Insensitive Bastard.
And that's the beauty of the PT-6
MaRiO FDZ
JJ Abrams you Insensitive Bastard.
That's a LazyLatus procedure right there. At least on the NGs
The autofeather I can. I did my initial training on the F90 at Simcom and it took me a while to NOT forget to arm the autofeather, even if I had just tested it. Took me a while to adjust my flow and my rythm. Also, I can picture the dude just taking off and him feeling secure as in "the plane takes care of it, just keep flying" only to realize the plane didn't behave as expected until it was late.
My very very first time up on a King Air (200) I was fresh off as a Commercial Single, and I was asked to help a former Mexicana pilot with GA procedures with CBP, so off I went. On applying power to taxi into position on the rwy for takeoff, both engines just hung. First the left one, ITT climbed to 700 and torque just dropped, and kept like 60% power tops, even with full throttle command, moments later the right engine did the same. We obviously aborted the flight and the culprit was a newly acquired 200 with very dirty fuel filters and FCUs.
Anyway I DO remember the propellers never feathered at that engine behavior, and now that I've flown KingAirs I can picture how this would definetly throw someone off.
Take Care
AAPalmTree
Well-Known Member
You picked up a plane from the factory and had en engine roll back on your 1st TO?
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
Frictions weren't tight enough but yes. It was quite a way to start a trip.
AAPalmTree
Well-Known Member
I know NOTHING about the king air but that sounds like a really bad design.
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
Well it's Beechcraft... you'd have to fly one to understand.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
Everything below the main instrument panel -- subpanels, power quadrant, pedestal -- are 1960s technology.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
No wonder jets make woman get naked.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I only flew in a KA once but I have a bunch of time in Beech 99s. They must have changed the design on the KA because I don't remember this being an issue on the 99 at all.
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
Doesn't seem to be taught in schools that the throttles have a return spring that pulls to IDLE. I couldn't believe it either.
This quote is from Tom Clements on Beechtalk who is arguably a KA expert.
User avatar Tom Clements↓
12 May 2013, 08:52
A situation came to my attention recently that reminded me of the importance of proper friction setting on King Air power quadrant levers, and I want to emphasize this critical information to my BT King Air pilot colleagues. Notice the four Friction Lock knobs in the picture below: One for each Power Lever, one for both Propeller Levers, and one for both Condition Levers.
IMG_0137.JPG
The vernier controls in Bonanzas, the one-friction-knob-controls-all-levers in Barons and Dukes...because of this past experience a lot of pilots transition into a King Air without really having been taught much about friction locks. I would estimate that over 50% of KA pilots pay scant attention, if any at all, to their friction knobs' settings. This isn't good!
Concerning the two power levers on King Airs, do you realize that a fairly hefty spring is attempting to pull each one back to idle at all times? As with any spring, the further it is stretched, the more force it applies...in this case, a force trying to return the PL to idle.
If any work is done inside the cowling that involves the condition, power, or propeller cables, it is routine for the mechanic to turn the four cockpit friction knobs all the way counterclockwise, loosening them totally. By doing so, now he can move the engine-end of the cable easily, while the cockpit-end of the same control can move fore and aft with little resistance.
But woe be to the poor pilot who picks up the plane from the shop and does not do a thorough cockpit check, does not follow every checklist step, and who fails to retighten those PL friction knobs! When his hand leaves the power levers to reach for the landing gear handle after liftoff, it is common now to find both power levers moving themselves back toward idle! In most cases, due to the shorter length of cable to the left engine than the right engine -- and the resultant less resistance in the cable run -- the left engine will loose more power than the right.
For those pilots who notice the PL movement, the problem is rather easily corrected...the hand is moved back to the PLs and returns them to the takeoff position. It can be almost comical to see the poor bastard trying to fly, keep the PLs forward, get the gear handle up, and tighten the friction knobs all at the same time!
But if the operator does not notice the "Power Lever Migration" toward idle, God help him! Suddenly the airplane is not climbing and accelerating, rudder force is required to keep it straight, and Auto-Feather (if installed) isn't working! (Auto-Feather being disarmed due to either or both power levers moving back.) I am positive that more than one fatal King Air takeoff accident has been caused by this very scenario.
To decrease the wear on the friction mechanism caused by moving the controls when the friction is tight, I personally "fiddle" with the friction knobs a lot...having them rather loose on the ground and then making sure they're snugged up prior to adding takeoff power. When setting propeller speed for climb or cruise, for me it is a three-step process: twist the friction knob a half-turn or so CCW, move the propeller levers, then snug the knob back up. When acting as a co-pilot or instructor in the right seat, I always have the index and middle fingers of my left hand resting at the base of the power levers when they are being pushed up for takeoff by the left-seat pilot...lightly enough that I won't interfere with a possible abort but firm enough that there's no way those levers are going to creep when the pilot's hand leaves them to raise the gear or turn off the lights.
Other pilots rarely ever change a friction setting and that's fine, presuming they were set properly initially. Sure, maybe this causes fractionally more wear in the mechanism, but in the overall scheme of things that's a tiny worry. But what about the pilot who is in the habit of not adjusting friction and then he or she flies another King Air, one that either just came out of maintenance with loosened friction or one operated by a pilot who routinely loosened them for ground operations?! Unless the pilot snugs them back up to the position he is used to using prior to takeoff, the deck has been stacked for an embarrassing, comical, boo-boo soon after liftoff, at best, or dead people and a destroyed airplane at worst!
For the new-comers to King Airs, I hope the message of this post is ingrained solidly in your memory-bank. It could save your life.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Must be a habit ingrained by flying old airplanes but I can't see entering the runway for takeoff WITHOUT making sure the friction lock is clamped down.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Some airplanes don't have friction locks.
Itchy
Well-Known Member
It's been a 25 years since I flew a KA, but I remember the non flying pilot in our operation would put his or her hand across the quadrant once power was set and kept it there through 1000'
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
The more I read this thread the more it seems like the King Air's "fail safe" designs are in many ways not at all fail safe.
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