United, PAFCA reach tentative agreement

Still up to a vote, but we'll see what the details are. Money is up there, but what was changed and given up?

We'll find out in the coming days once the full LOA is presented to the group.
 
derriko said:
I wonder if that high end is changing because to me, 105k is just not enough to live in Chicago.
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It's actually to match the compensation that DL is getting with their new wage scale.

Unsure why everyone thinks living in the Chicago area is like living in Hawaii or something. Dallas and Atlanta are certainly cheaper in terms of housing options. However, it's less expensive than NYC, Seattle, San Francisco, and Honolulu...probably fairly comparable to Fort Lauderdale or Denver...and all those cities have airline dispatch offices where the top of pay scale is under 105K.
 
manniax said:
It's actually to match the compensation that DL is getting with their new wage scale.

Unsure why everyone thinks living in the Chicago area is like living in Hawaii or something. Dallas and Atlanta are certainly cheaper in terms of housing options. However, it's less expensive than NYC, Seattle, San Francisco, and Honolulu...probably fairly comparable to Fort Lauderdale or Denver...and all those cities have airline dispatch offices where the top of pay scale is under 105K.
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It's not so much the accommodations cannot be found that are reasonably affordable, its that the commute is enough to make you seriously consider just living in your car in the Loop during your work week!
 
manniax said:
Unsure why everyone thinks living in the Chicago area is like living in Hawaii or something. Dallas and Atlanta are certainly cheaper in terms of housing options. However, it's less expensive than NYC, Seattle, San Francisco, and Honolulu...probably fairly comparable to Fort Lauderdale or Denver...and all those cities have airline dispatch offices where the top of pay scale is under 105K.
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You are putting words into my mouth.

I know Chicago isn't New York or San Fran, but that doesnt make any sense to compare those cities since Virgin and JetBlue are much smaller than United.

Comparing the ~105-110k to Southwest, Delta, and American who all top out about 20-30k higher than that, and with Dallas and Atlanta which are significantly cheaper cities leaves a crap ton more money in your pocket at those airlines.

That 20-30k gap equates to a lot more in your pocket after housing. You probably end up with about 50k more per year in your pocket.

And Im not bashing United at all, I wouldnt mind working there if I couldve convinced the wife to live in that freezing tundra of hell, but she didnt go for it haha. I have a lot of people that went from my airline to there, and are quite happy. Not a bad place at all, just not for me.
 
derriko said:
And Im not bashing United at all, I wouldnt mind working there if I couldve convinced the wife to live in that freezing tundra of hell, but she didnt go for it haha. I have a lot of people that went from my airline to there, and are quite happy. Not a bad place at all, just not for me.
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Actually all the airlines/cities I was referring to in my last example qualify as majors (with the possible exception of San Francisco/Virgin America, I couldn't find their 2015 annual revenue online easily and I didn't feel like digging for it) that fly mainline-type equipment (and in the case of Hawaiian, widebody equipment) so I think they are a decent basis for comparison.

Also, not sure where you're getting your numbers but the top out pay at AA is currently lower than UA. UA and DL are currently lower than WN. Assuming the TA passes at UA for the extension, the compensation there will be roughly the same as DL. AA is working on a new contract but with the merger and TWU issues there, I don't think that will happen any time soon....any current AA people who want to correct me on that, feel free, but my friends there haven't mentioned any recent developments when I talked to them last.

No city/region is for everyone and there are certainly some places I haven't sent my resume because of where they are located, but if you don't think you could make ends meet in the Chicagoland area while making $105K you've got some expensive tastes.
 
manniax said:
Also, not sure where you're getting your numbers but the top out pay at AA is currently lower than UA. UA and DL are currently lower than WN. Assuming the TA passes at UA for the extension, the compensation there will be roughly the same as DL.

No city/region is for everyone and there are certainly some places I haven't sent my resume because of where they are located, but if you don't think you could make ends meet in the Chicagoland area while making $105K you've got some expensive tastes.
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I have a direct source at both AA and DL..now don't get me wrong, this is just what ive been told and the AA rumor is just that, a rumor. Delta is currently the industry leader at around 140k and the rumors from American is that they are going to sign a DL + 3% contract which will obviously be the new highest.

Im simply arguing the fact that for actual money in hand, United is, or will be 4th or so in the industry. Theres nothing really wrong with that...Im not saying United dispatchers need to start picketing outside or anything. Its just a statement. And like I said, the people I know there definitely arent complaining.

But for me, with no local ties to any of these airlines cities, I simply want the most money. Obviously almost anybody can make a 6 figure salary work even in NYC. Hell, Im a regional dispatcher with a wife who is a full time student. I dont like to admit it, but I have looked into government assistance before haha.
 
In this proposed LOA (provided it passes) there is a comparator clause for the duration of the contract (extension included) that would match DL and AA every time they receive a pay bump or amend their contract.

So all in all, its moot who get paid more compared to United because United will match anyway. Cost of living is just the nature of the beast. Nobody put a gun to my head and I know what i signed up for years ago. Trust me, 100+K in Chicago will be just fine if you're not a idiot.
 
derriko said:
I have a direct source at both AA and DL..now don't get me wrong, this is just what ive been told and the AA rumor is just that, a rumor. Delta is currently the industry leader at around 140k and the rumors from American is that they are going to sign a DL + 3% contract which will obviously be the new highest.
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You may well be correct about DL; WN used to be highest but after the last pay raise they got they DL might have eclipsed them. However one thing I have learned from my time in the industry is that change is pretty constant. While I doubt that DL, AA, or UA will ever move their HQ again - never say never, because I'm sure people thought the same thing at HP, US, NW, and CO before all the merger mania happened. In terms of pure "money left over" though, AA or WN would probably be best due to not only the cost of living in the DFW area, but also the lack of state income tax there. Texas does have some pretty high property taxes to make up for that though, and if oil stays low for years to come they might start looking at a state income tax as well. As far as the AA contract...I wish them the best, I just have my doubts they will have a DL+3% pay scale soon - although I'd love to be proved wrong on that.
 
F9DXER said:
Especially if one chooses to live in IN or maybe WI
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Anywhere remotely close to Chicago in the state of Indiana is not somewhere you are going to want to live.

Wisconsin is too damn far to be practical and what money you save you are going to eat up on the commute, and that's before you consider the value of your personal time.

I'm sure United thought they were making a good move by placing their ops in a prestigious location like the Sears... Umm, The Big Willy, but I really believe then did their workers a great disservice. The campus in Elk Grove Township was pretty run down, but I think the location was FAR AND AWAY better then the Loop. With the ops center in the northwest suburbs you could reasonably live in say Round Lake or even say Woodstock where things are much more affordable and still have a reasonable commute.
 
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