Most junior NYC MD88 captain...

[Autothrust Blue]

Sometimes there isn't a way to add any leadership positions, I went to the United ALPA event and got to meet with and talk to the head person over hiring. Looking at my resume he comment that it looked great and I checked all the box that I could, but I needed a little more to get the call and he would like me to add some extra responsibilities within the company. As a FO at Eagle there wasn't any leadership roles available to me Eagle is a very CA centered airline. I asked him if leaving Eagle to get PIC time would be a good move and he said United values loyalty over PIC time.

We have a similar Captain-centric culture here, for reasons undetermined; with two ATPs up front, there needs to be a lot less of that. It's always sort of shocking for me to meet someone in the crew lounge with my student council badge on and then they realize the guy doing a good amount of rep work is an FO, not a CA...but yeah.

 

[amorris311]

We have a similar Captain-centric culture here, for reasons undetermined; with two ATPs up front, there needs to be a lot less of that. It's always sort of shocking for me to meet someone in the crew lounge with my student council badge on and then they realize the guy doing a good amount of rep work is an FO, not a CA...but yeah.

I agree that everything shouldn't be exclusively captain centric but sometimes old habits die hard etc.

What exactly does SAPA represent in terms of pilot protection? I'm curious since I've seen people "running" for an elected position but don't completely understand what the governing body represents without a contract.

Not trying to start a war just curious.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

We have a similar Captain-centric culture here, for reasons undetermined; with two ATPs up front, there needs to be a lot less of that. It's always sort of shocking for me to meet someone in the crew lounge with my student council badge on and then they realize the guy doing a good amount of rep work is an FO, not a CA...but yeah.

I think that is probably a carryover from "the good ol days" from when if you were an FO, you hadn't been with the company for very long. Surejet was the same way and it was incredibly irritating.

 

[derg]

Surejet was the same way and it was incredibly irritating.

Hey! America's first Super Regional?

(Is that REAL tomato ketchup, Eddie?)

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I agree that everything shouldn't be exclusively captain centric but sometimes old habits die hard etc.

What exactly does SAPA represent in terms of pilot protection? I'm curious since I've seen people "running" for an elected position but don't completely understand what the governing body represents without a contract.

Not trying to start a war just curious.

It's a weird arrangement. And yeah, I'm not actually sure myself. I think it's probably closest to how jetBlue did things prior to the arrival of ALPA. As far as what kind of an entity it is, I'm not a labor lawyer and it's best to not ask me.

I take "pilot protection" to be a very broad term - in the services sense, we actually do have (for instance) aeromedical services (the Company has agreed to pay for AMAS, for instance) and a handful of other professional services available, although nowhere near as much or as varied as the ALPA carrier I worked for. We also have some reasonably robust pilot assistance services, including HIMS, CIRP, and Professional Standards, and are starting up an additional program to allow pilots to better manage stress and trauma not solely related to their occupation (I think American calls this Wingman and Delta calls it Pan-Pan, although I'm not strictly sure). Pilots additionally have the right to have one of our representatives present during any management interaction, and we have a defined process for disciplinary actions and termination appeals as well.

In the "contract language" sense, it depends on the issue of the week. I view the Pilot Policy Manual as equivalent in force to a contract (at least in the sense of if I fail to follow it I will surely be fired), and expect that it is followed. I spend the bulk of my time as a rep answering questions and developing policy ideas, actually, and getting them into language. (Whether or not they go anywhere after that is another question.)

Clear as mud, no doubt.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

It's a weird arrangement. And yeah, I'm not actually sure myself. I think it's probably closest to how jetBlue did things prior to the arrival of ALPA. As far as what kind of an entity it is, I'm not a labor lawyer and it's best to not ask me.

I take "pilot protection" to be a very broad term - in the services sense, we actually do have (for instance) aeromedical services (the Company has agreed to pay for AMAS, for instance) and a handful of other professional services available, although nowhere near as much or as varied as the ALPA carrier I worked for. We also have some reasonably robust pilot assistance services, including HIMS, CIRP, and Professional Standards, and are starting up an additional program to allow pilots to better manage stress and trauma not solely related to their occupation (I think American calls this Wingman and Delta calls it Pan-Pan, although I'm not strictly sure). Pilots additionally have the right to have one of our representatives present during any management interaction, and we have a defined process for disciplinary actions and termination appeals as well.

In the "contract language" sense, it depends on the issue of the week. I view the Pilot Policy Manual as equivalent in force to a contract (at least in the sense of if I fail to follow it I will surely be fired), and expect that it is followed. I spend the bulk of my time as a rep answering questions and developing policy ideas, actually, and getting them into language. (Whether or not they go anywhere after that is another question.)

Clear as mud, no doubt.

Pilot protection is obviously very important, but I think all the stuff that Tall Derg has posted above plays a big role in union work, legally enforceable or not. Just having someone there to help you navigate through the BS in this job is a HUGE benefit.

 

[sorrygottarunway]

Plenty people live outside of the 8 million populated 5 boroughs in very nice places, all with bird feeders and the smell of a few trees. And within driving distance of NYC airports. Don't live in NYC but it's 28 minutes from home to the parking lot in JFK(without traffic)..and people say I drive slow!

I'm in love with NYC. Mecca for classical music/culture!

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Pilot protection is obviously very important, but I think all the stuff that Tall Derg has posted above plays a big role in union work, legally enforceable or not. Just having someone there to help you navigate through the BS in this job is a HUGE benefit.

Dude, you have no idea. I'm exceptionally lucky that I was exposed to this industry LONG, LONG before my date of hire at Brand X. There's a lot that we aren't covering in ground school - because we simply can't - and it does show.

I actually want to see a day added to our footprint that is spent talking about reserve, scheduling, the rules, and so on, along with how to act. Unfortunately, we don't have time to cram it in, I'm told. The Association/PBS presentation happens at a very inconvenient time (initial systems) and you forget 100% of it. I think we have a huge opportunity to grow and better serve both ourselves (the pilot group), the Company, and our passengers, if we set expectations much more clearly in terms of the "soft" topics. Everyone can fly the airplane. It takes more than that.

I'd answer the phone way less if we did. Not to say I mind helping our guys and gals out, but a little foreknowledge would greatly reduce the workload.

And yes, I'd like an enforceable contract, and I see that as mutually beneficial to ALL parties. If nothing else, it makes things predictable.

 

[Kingairer]

Cool. But not in the situation we are talking about.

True. My relative seniority in the left seat of 190 would be better than right seat of 320.

 

[sorrygottarunway]

Good. I trust you hunted for networking opportunities other than the actual career fair? The Village tavern, I hear, was a hotbed of networking opportunities. Some of the recruiters were on hand that would dole out some "unofficial" guidance and some "do's and don'ts" in career fair success. One guy, I was told, that couldn't get a 'fast pass' helped someone they thought was just a secretary tear down their display and it was apparently one of the managers of pilot selection that talked to him for a bit, took his resume and processed it as if he had showed up at the actual fair.

THIS. There was a certain someone wearing a light blue "volunteer" shirt that later helped recruiters of his shop pour over the few hundred resumes on the flight home!

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Dude, you have no idea. I'm exceptionally lucky that I was exposed to this industry LONG, LONG before my date of hire at Brand X. There's a lot that we aren't covering in ground school - because we simply can't - and it does show.

I actually want to see a day added to our footprint that is spent talking about reserve, scheduling, the rules, and so on, along with how to act. Unfortunately, we don't have time to cram it in, I'm told. The Association/PBS presentation happens at a very inconvenient time (initial systems) and you forget 100% of it. I think we have a huge opportunity to grow and better serve both ourselves (the pilot group), the Company, and our passengers, if we set expectations much more clearly in terms of the "soft" topics. Everyone can fly the airplane. It takes more than that.

I'd answer the phone way less if we did. Not to say I mind helping our guys and gals out, but a little foreknowledge would greatly reduce the workload.

And yes, I'd like an enforceable contract, and I see that as mutually beneficial to ALL parties. If nothing else, it makes things predictable.

I know it's not quite the scale that you'd like, but have you thought about maybe throwing a powerpoint presentation together, putting it on a zip drive, and handing it out to new hires?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

THIS. There was a certain someone wearing a light blue "volunteer" shirt that later helped recruiters of his shop pour over the few hundred resumes on the flight home!

The whole weekend was just awesome.

I know it's not quite the scale that you'd like, but have you thought about maybe throwing a powerpoint presentation together, putting it on a zip drive, and handing it out to new hires?

Not a bad idea, actually.

brb, updating our new hire guide.

 

[GypsyPilot]

Bummer, must have missed you while I hung out in line.

I saw a million other people we work with though! That was actually pretty fun!

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I saw a million other people we work with though! That was actually pretty fun!

"A written report is required regarding your absence from scheduled pairing (____) on January 24, 2016..."

 

[GypsyPilot]

"A written report is required regarding your absence from scheduled pairing (____) on January 24, 2016..."

Ha. Yeah... I actually had it off. Advantage of being in a small base. But I know that was unusual.

 

[Gonzo]

How about leadership positions within the community?

At the time I had that box checked (because of work and limited time at home I have had to temporarily pause stuff like that), he liked that I had LOR from people I did volunteer work with.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

I know it's not quite the scale that you'd like, but have you thought about maybe throwing a powerpoint presentation together, putting it on a zip drive, and handing it out to new hires?

Plenty of room on the student disk handed out.

 

[grkero]

I know it's not quite the scale that you'd like, but have you thought about maybe throwing a powerpoint presentation together, putting it on a zip drive, and handing it out to new hires?

Probably should hand out the disk drive as well.

 

[mastermags]

Yea I should have said I was talking mostly about second year guys. Used to be you could slide right into a line on the bus after a year as a 190 fo or you could bid 190 captain and be on reserve. However, all the guys who have hit a year for around the last 6 months are still deep on reserve on the bus in all the bases. So the argument that you could fly 90 hours in the bus and make almost as much as a 190 captain on reserve is no longer valid. Third year is a different story. Only $7-8 more an hour, but could probably hold a line around the same time.

Despite the current relative seniority scenarios, the fact that guys were ever bidding from a narrow body Captain position to a narrow body FO position at any time with less than two or three years longevity is, again, ridiculous. I am curious to see how the the seniority goes at SJI when the E190s come around. I think that it will go a bit more senior than people think simply because they will be based in SEA, which tends to be a much more senior base than NYC or PHL.

 

[derg]

Despite the current relative seniority scenarios, the fact that guys were ever bidding from a narrow body Captain position to a narrow body FO position at any time with less than two or three years longevity is, again, ridiculous. I am curious to see how the the seniority goes at SJI when the E190s come around. I think that it will go a bit more senior than people think simply because they will be based in SEA, which tends to be a much more senior base than NYC or PHL.

I can't see that either. Not saying it doesn't happen but literally the only one I've seen do that is by displacement shortly after the merger in terms of @fo4ever but he was also pay protected and wanted to be around to shut the lights off in CVG.