Interesting thoughts on ORD layout...

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Roger Roger said:
I dunno y'all, seems like a lot of us these days are a little too quick to discount the skill and sheer ballsiness of those who came before and got us where we are.
We've since moved on and found safer, better ways to do things but you have to have some respect for the old days whether it's the ORD controllers shooting non-existent gaps to keep things moving or good ol' Ernie Gann lowering his seat and turning up the lights to plow through a thunderstorm.
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That's all well and good, but it is constantly trotted out in discussions to discount the achievements of newer aviation professionals. I'm not losing sleep over it, but I'm not going to applaud the attitude either. I'm sorry, I can't MAKE it go back to the olden days. And if I could I don't think I'd want to anyway.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
It's nice to see that controllers also do the "mine's bigger" thing.
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I think it's a general male thing but yes we're bad...

Vector4Food said:
Here's all you need to know about controllers, this is universal, and always applies.

We all think we're the busiest, most complex sectors/tower controllers in the world... All of us, because guess what radar sectors are generally kept at a complexity or volume level so one controller can work it, most of the time, with some exceptions.

I've sat at approach sectors for Class 3 airport (out of max of 6 up here) and I've also sat at a class 6.

The class 6 traffic is so heavily structured that the class 3 (when it was busy for an hour or two per day) was infinitely more complex, and required a massively larger skill requirement.

We rate airports by volume of IFR traffic, not controller skill requirement.


My point is every controller is busy in their own way.
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+1

I've quickly found this to be true and I love when people throw operational statistics around without context like it really means anything. I will say I love getting tower guys blood boiling when they tell me how hard ground is... my response always being "can't you literally tell a plane to stop... that's awesome!" :stir:;)

My favorite is also the older guys that talk about how terrible the younger generation is right after they were just complaining about how awful someone more senior to them is.... what?
 
queeno said:
you know i still love you BRO even if you did work in a Large Tracon,
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How about this. ORD is superior, you win.

Just ask John Carr (I'm sure you know the name. He's the one who put ORD's wants ahead of the Unions. The same Union that he vowed protect and to serve) during our ATC13 conversation where we made "the #'s but no one will ever be a 13 till ORD is", (where our own Union screwed their own Members out of $ because of ORD pride).

Typical ORD attitude.

F the Union members as long as ORD gets theirs. The only thing I gauage life on now is how much bigger my Middle East paycheck is and my quality of life is, now that the FAA, my Union "Brothers and Sister's" are in my rearview window after 30 years and the d'bag chest thumping crap is behind me, compared to being a dick "one trick pony". See if you can grab a job here, and we'll talk. It ain't easy....even being from the all mighty ORD.

NATCA is a joke and so are FAA controllers. NATCA, and ORD & ATL, are a YMCA without a pool. If you don't see it, your head is in the sand.....or somewhere else.

Brother and Sisters my ass
 
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A80TRACON said:
How about this. ORD is superior, just ask John Carr during our ATC13 conversation. blah blah blah, mines bigger. The only thing I gage life on is how much bigger my Middle East paycheck is now and my quality of life is, now that the FAA is in my rearview window after 30 years, compared to being a dick "one trick pony". See if you can grab a job here, and we'll talk. It ain't easy....even being from the all might ORD.
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Toughest I've ever personally seen are US/ROK PAR controllers in the GCA at KwangJu recovering multiple out of fuel F-4/F-5 fighters in the middle of a Korean snowstorm, without a hitch and without a missed approach. Well done jobing it there.
 
FM_Weasel said:
That's all well and good, but it is constantly trotted out in discussions to discount the achievements of newer aviation professionals. I'm not losing sleep over it, but I'm not going to applaud the attitude either. I'm sorry, I can't MAKE it go back to the olden days. And if I could I don't think I'd want to anyway.
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WHEN I WAS YOUR LONGEVITY WE FLEW THE BRASILIA AT $22/HOUR WITH A 3:57 MDG! YOU DAMN KIDS!

(then Seggy says, "I flew the 19-hundo at (some lower amount)/hour, you damn kids," then someone else says "I flew (___) at (___)/hour, you damn kids" and so on.)

Having heard the stories from someone, and being descended from someone who got on in the waning days of "the sex was safe, and the flying was dangerous" - I wouldn't go back to those days either. I'll take boring, any day, over what was happening when he was in the brown-hair days.
 
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Thanks a lot @queeno ;)
 
If it wasn't for my kids, I think I'd be riding a camel to work tomorrow if they'd have me.

Many people have gone, usually escaping ex-wives, none have complained
 
Well anyway, back on topic and away from "look how long my final approach path is", that was a cool article. It would've been cool to see an airport have that type of layout, I am sure taxiing time would still be shorter than it is now.
 
smack300 said:
Well anyway, back on topic and away from "look how long my final approach path is", that was a cool article. It would've been cool to see an airport have that type of layout, I am sure taxiing time would still be shorter than it is now.
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Would be an interesting juxtaposition to MDW-in-a-box right down the road, to say the least.
 
With regards to C90 I have nothing but serious respect for their operation and the controllers there. Having said that, I work with people from N90, LGA, I90, A80, D10, LAX AND C90. I'll give you one guess as to who, from which facility, came in as a trainee, declared our operation garbage and began asking for changes before certifying on their first scope.

Chicago has a reputation for being different.
 
Vector4Food said:
Ahhhh but up in here socialist canuckistan we have frequency coupling, doesn't happen anymore! Or hardly as much as it used to!
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I recently had my first trip through Canuckistan airspace. Awesome controllers.

I noticed that center would have aircraft switch to a frequency that I wasnt listening to, and still heard them transmitting. Is that the frequency coupling?
 
ASpilot2be said:
I recently had my first trip through Canuckistan airspace. Awesome controllers.

I noticed that center would have aircraft switch to a frequency that I wasnt listening to, and still heard them transmitting. Is that the frequency coupling?
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Yup

Basically we activate it on our panels, so during slower times when we consolidate sectors I'll have as many as 19 frequencies in my panel, but normally only using 3-5.

With coupling an aircraft 600NM north of you transmits it instantly broadcasts on any frequencies I have selected to couple.

The benefits are obvious, the only downside is trying to explain to guys at 4am why, while they can hear their company clear as a bell, they can't hear them when they go to a company freq!
 
Vector4Food said:
Yup

Basically we activate it on our panels, so during slower times when we consolidate sectors I'll have as many as 19 frequencies in my panel, but normally only using 3-5.

With coupling an aircraft 600NM north of you transmits it instantly broadcasts on any frequencies I have selected to couple.

The benefits are obvious, the only downside is trying to explain to guys at 4am why, while they can hear their company clear as a bell, they can't hear them when they go to a company freq!
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That is pretty awesome! Our controllers control many different frequencies, but I cant hear the aircraft on the other frequencies. I was quite puzzled for a while, and clearing an airplane to an airport for an approach. Very strange to hear.

There were very cute sounding controllers at Montreal and Toronto center when we passed through at whatever strange hour it was.
 
ASpilot2be said:
The ADS-B system is going to awesome in Alaska. We go to a couple destinations that are non-radar. It will be nice to speed up arrivals and departures to these airports.
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It will be exponentially cheaper to pay for access to our system than build and support your own network of ADS-B locations, but will the Tea Party like buying such things from socialist canuckistan? ;)
 
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