Current upgrade time

Derg said:
Oh, here's one. We have a triple digit (600-ish) 747 FO (figure that one out) that bid 717 captain.

We have somewhere around 13,000 pilots (very rough estimate)

Think about that for a bit.
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WHAT???????
 
I'm sure he'll be #1 on the 717 at that seniority. Hell, he could have probably had his choice of trips on the 747 captain spot too.

Senior international FO can be a lot of fun coupled with schedule control, but it ain't all that!
 
Polar742 said:
So we get you like to always post with a tone of admonishment.

What's the point of this thread? Advice to anyone that'll click?
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How is it admonishment? It's food for thought, advice, something to look at and think about, then take or leave. Fast upgrades are not necessarily bad (though the speed of some of them makes me worry about the experience up front in some airplanes). But sometimes upgrades change- thus the title of the thread. Not upgrade times, but current upgrade times.
What's the point of the thread? What's the point of any thread? Look at other threads about FFDs. Heck, look at the first page of this thread. Everything is "what is the current upgrade time", like this will necessarily apply to someone hired today. It may, it may not. What then? For the pilot with no family who is able to jump ship, maybe it's not a big deal. For the one with camp followers who commutes maybe it's a bigger deal if the decision was made solely on upgrade time.
Am I the oldest person on this forum? Of course not. But I've been around long enough to see the ebbs and flows of the industry, particularly "upgrade times". Personally, not sure why it's such a controversial thought.
 
Polar742 said:
So we get you like to always post with a tone of admonishment.

What's the point of this thread? Advice to anyone that'll click?
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I believe he's trying to convince people to stay at/come to Expressjet.

They have a LOA in the works that promises 8 upgrades per month plus some much needed schedule improvements in return for allowing new upgrades (within a year) fly in the right seat when needed.

Seems like a good deal, but hardly salvation for the airline.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I believe he's trying to convince people to stay at/come to Expressjet.

They have a LOA in the works that promises 8 upgrades per month plus some much needed schedule improvements in return for allowing new upgrades (within a year) fly in the right seat when needed.

Seems like a good deal, but hardly salvation for the airline.
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While the LOA may have been the impetus I hardly view it as a panacea, nor do I think by any stretch that our upgrades will suddenly drop dramatically, barring a quick contract extension and new flying I've been pretty consistent in my advice about fast upgrades.
I've had FOs ask my advice. In most cases I try to get them to make their own decision matrix with its pluses and minuses, but where I give advise it does depend on a person's situation. In some cases based upon the circumstances at the time my recommendation was to make the leap for the upgrade. In others I felt their seniority warranted patience. It's been the same its new hires. I've steered some toward "the evil empire" based upon their circumstances, with others I told them we might be w good fit. The one thing I have ALWAYS advised them is to avoid the sweat shops (I will let you guess which ones).
Again, I've seen this stuff before. Upgrade times ebb and flow. Be aware. Is that really so controversial?
 
BTW, I think far more significant than any specifics of the LOA are:
1. The possibility that we will be permitted to work out a separate extension.
2. The fact that our ALPA reps and management were able to work out an agreement that encompasses more than just right seat captains so quickly.

I guess I've gone from being pessimistic to cautiously optimistic about the future.
 
Blackhawk said:
BTW, I think far more significant than any specifics of the LOA are:
1. The possibility that we will be permitted to work out a separate extension.
2. The fact that our ALPA reps and management were able to work out an agreement that encompasses more than just right seat captains so quickly.

I guess I've gone from being pessimistic to cautiously optimistic about the future.
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The angry side has to agree to changing the TPA, and they're basically the tea party of pilot groups. No solutions, just a lot of "no!"
 
Seggy said:
Insane...Unless they can be number one in base and do day trips???
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That could be huge for QOL. If you live in base and can hold 0900 shows with 1700 ends and 7 hours of credit per day would result in MASSIVE QOL. You'd fly what? 10 days per month and never do an overnight again? All while making the same coin you were?

Seems easy in the right case.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I believe he's trying to convince people to stay at/come to Expressjet.

They have a LOA in the works that promises 8 upgrades per month plus some much needed schedule improvements in return for allowing new upgrades (within a year) fly in the right seat when needed.

Seems like a good deal, but hardly salvation for the airline.
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So wait...this LOA is back on the table? 8 upgrades per month...woooozer. That'll really get them in the door or stop them from heading out the door. Give me a break.

Anyone who is counting on ExpressJet to be their source of income for the long term is gonna be in a world of hurt unless drastic changes to our company's trajectory occur soon.
 
kellwolf said:
Even then, it's do you WANT to upgrade? The choice is simpler T the regionals. The dollar figures alone are worth the the commute and QoL hit along with making yourself more marketable to move up.

At the majors, it becomes a different story. Right now, I drive to work (on the 5-9 days I actually get called a month) and don't care much about show and release times. I have about 19 guys below me that just got 190 CA in JFK. Now I can bid that when my lock is up in a year, but do I want to give up the cushy QoL I have living in base? Yeah, it's more money, but I live comfortably now as an Airbus FO. I'd be commuting again and likely to reserve at that. Signs point to me waiting a few years for 190 MCO CA. If a merger comes along, we'll see if I regret that.
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You were one of the lucky 2 yr-9E upgrades. Someone like me, I was 4.5 at 9E as FO and will probably be 8 year FO here. In the 13th year of flying for the airlines, it'd be hard to pass up the first upgrade. And for me that means a commute across the country to SFO reserve.
 
Derg said:
Dude, you're from Jersey.

You're used to the broke ass infrastructure of NYC! :)

To the other 310-ish million people, that place is a hole.

But nice seniority, hell on domestic commuters and crash pads aplenty.
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I'm from Jersey, west of EWR, in one of the nice richer Jewish 'burbs. Things are pretty good here. Where there is money, the schools, roads, etc, are usually good in NJ.
 
Blackhawk said:
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Don't pick an airline based solely on current upgrade time. They can, have and will change in a heartbeat.
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I don't know why people do this. It's one of the largest drivers of instability and poor compensation in the regional airline industry.

I was hired at my current employer when the upgrade time was 12 years, and there were no upgrades planned. A year after I was hired it reached 13 years.

I upgraded in 3 years, 8 months. Meanwhile, I got to enjoy being based at home and having one of the higher pay scales the regionals can offer.
Derg said:
Generally the most junior captain is there because no one else wanted to deal with it.
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As a bottom-of-the-barrel reserve Captain commuting to Anchorage, I can attest that this is true.
 
surreal1221 said:
So wait...this LOA is back on the table? 8 upgrades per month...woooozer. That'll really get them in the door or stop them from heading out the door. Give me a break.

Anyone who is counting on ExpressJet to be their source of income for the long term is gonna be in a world of hurt unless drastic changes to our company's trajectory occur soon.
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That's a minimum over one year (I believe). There was much more to it than that such as improvements in QOL.

IDK. At my pay rate, bidding pretty much what I want, I'm not doing too bad. If not for a screwup on my part I would be working six days next month instead of 9. I can live with that.

Also, as I wrote above there are things beyond the specifics of this agreement that give me some hope for the future and negotiation progress. At least on the "mellow" side of ExpressJet.
 
surreal1221 said:
So this LOA is back in discussion? In August it was pulled away...interested to see it is back on the table.
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I don't want to post specifics beyond what was mentioned- supposedly a minimum of 8 upgrades/month- until it is accepted by the MEC and published. There were quite a number of QOL/scheduling improvements and I can't even remember all the details. Now this is only on the "boot licking, subservient to management" side.
 
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