Current upgrade time
- Thread starter Blackhawk
- Start date
Oldschool Pilot
Well-Known Member
If you walk into any airline with previous turbine pic time would that push you closer to upgrade first compared to a fresh new hire with no turbine time?
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
It depends.
Nark
Macho Superpilot
No.
Upgrades are seniority based. Exceptions are PSA were they have hired direct entry captains, however for each FO that has a senior Date of Hire, they will advance ahead of the street hire.*
TSA and GoJets, for a while, hired Captain Qualified FO's.
You will also need 1000 hours of 121 time. In addition, you'll need a requisite amount of time. I think (RAH) required 2000TT.
So basically, no.
*PSA dudes, can you verify that?
You need 1,000 hours of Part 121 SIC time. I had to turn in my Part 121 SIC totals (over 3,000 at Comair and TSA combined) before I could upgrade at PSA. At that time, my Part 121 PIC time didn't matter. I could have upgraded sooner than I did because of my previous experience. I did complete upgrade while on probation.
Several PSA F/Os went through IOE, then immediately began upgrade training based upon previous experience at Comair, Endeavor, ExpressJet and Envoy. All had more than the 1,000 hours Part 121 SIC time. In some cases, they had 3,000 to 4,000 hours. Some early 2014 hires are now approaching, or have passed, the 1,000 hours of Part 121 SIC time required for upgrade.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Or 1000 hours of the 135 or 91K time listed in 121.436(a)3
Old Dominion Flyer
Well-Known Member
Blackhawk said:
Lemme guess. Your FO is considering a move.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Nope. I'm so senior that the FOs I fly with are close to upgrade. Just things coming out that will shift upgrade times. Slowly, but they will shift. I've seen this pony show before. People chase upgrade times or go to airlines based solely on upgrade times and end up in a place with a horrible contract.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't get hot and bothered about 8 upgrades a month.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Neither would I. But it indicates a movement in the correc direction.
Like I wrote, not my first rodeo. I have personally seen this industry for 16 years. Including my brother's time it's been over 25 years. I've seen the rise and fall of the tides of upgrade times and they tend to shift before 90% of the pilots realize what has occurred.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
A quick uptime today does not guarantee a quick upgrade tomorrow.
Truth.
From a recruitment perspective, everyone and his pet hamster has PIC turbine time so it's no longer as important a metric than is the whole candidate if you're looking at moving up the food chain.
Snuggle
Well-Known Member
This is true. Things can and will change. Upgrade times will only be true for whoever is upgrading right now. However, i'd still rather take a chance at a quick upgrade vs a long one. Positioning myself to get into a major asap was my goal when I started, and I'd do the same thing if I had to do it all over again.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I don't. But I will bake and bring a delicious cake and rumor has it that is more valuable than TPIC time.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
It's always a gamble, with the exception being for the regional level in which one may be at a stagnant, shrinking regional that is returning or parking airplanes. Because they already have several thousand SIC hours, they can go and pretty much be a street Captain at other regionals.
At the majors, it becomes tougher. At current company, I remember interviewing with a great guy and he was hired as well, but one class after me. Apparently his previous employer held onto the PRIA record until literally the last day (30) as allowed by law. So he missed a class and wasn't too happy. He was mid-40s so I could see why. Then, just 7 months later we announced our fleet deferral and the 'quick' upgrade was gone. That was later October. He applied the same day to Spirit, got called, interviewed, hired, and was in class January 2013. Today, he's an Airbus Captain at Spirit. Had he stayed, he'd still be below me, and my level is barely halfway up the FO list after 3.7 years. So for him, chasing the quick upgrade worked. It was the reason he came to VX, and once it was obvious the quick upgrade wouldn't happen, he went straight to Spirit and the move paid off.
It's not always the case though, and at the legacies with all the retirements coming up, one wouldn't leave one to go to another just for a supposed quick-upgrade.
At the majors, it becomes tougher. At current company, I remember interviewing with a great guy and he was hired as well, but one class after me. Apparently his previous employer held onto the PRIA record until literally the last day (30) as allowed by law. So he missed a class and wasn't too happy. He was mid-40s so I could see why. Then, just 7 months later we announced our fleet deferral and the 'quick' upgrade was gone. That was later October. He applied the same day to Spirit, got called, interviewed, hired, and was in class January 2013. Today, he's an Airbus Captain at Spirit. Had he stayed, he'd still be below me, and my level is barely halfway up the FO list after 3.7 years. So for him, chasing the quick upgrade worked. It was the reason he came to VX, and once it was obvious the quick upgrade wouldn't happen, he went straight to Spirit and the move paid off.
It's not always the case though, and at the legacies with all the retirements coming up, one wouldn't leave one to go to another just for a supposed quick-upgrade.
Well, depends on the type.
Old Dominion Flyer
Well-Known Member
Blackhawk said:
Agreed. How many years is upgrade now?