Mesa votes no

jtrain609 said:
Heard it all before, son. Hell, said it myself.

But a full third of my class at the new job was in the exact same boat. Said screw it, said this was a terrible career, said they'd do something else.

And came back anyway.
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I know, I know. Hell, we have a mutual friend. Kinda neat how this industry it, on all acounts
 
scooter2525 said:
The money was IN the banana stand!

NO TOUCHING!
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The best part is...I'm watching this whilst on Netflix on a sit in Seattle.
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I'll try to give some first hand info from the crewroom rumor mill, and my own personal opinions

I'm still in my first year and therefore couldn't vote on this contract but if I had been eligible I would have voted no.

Most of the changes in this TA were already in the old contract in the form of LOAs so most of the stuff that was sold as a gain was already mostly in place. The changes to the scheduling part of the contract may or may not have been real improvements, and most of the pilots would rather deal with the devil they know than the devil they don't. There were some minor perks (like having the company pay for KCM) which was fairly underwhelming

Here were the three main problems that were IMHO the reason this TA got shot down so definitively.

1st, No real pay raises. The first few steps on the FO side got a token raise, but they still want us to fly DC-9s for 1900 pay.

2nd, Same crappy company held health plan. The health plan is so expensive for a family that almost all pilots are forced to rely on their spouses and/or Obamacare.

3rd, This TA would lock all of the above in for the next 5 years (more likely 8-10). In this environment, we will have more and more leverage as the company has more trouble staffing, so why not kick the can down the road.

I believe the negotiating committee when they said that there isn't any more money on the table. A 3rd party audited all the companies books and the paltry raises was all there was to be had. A large pay raise or improved health care would not be financially sustainable given the razor thin margins of our flying.

The old paradigm of flying a 1900 for 2-3 years in a regional network for crappy pay simply doesn't apply any more. We are flying midsize jets on cross country routes which in many cases were previously served by mainline. Many of our pilots have been here for nearly a decade (or longer) and quite a few are not in a position to move up to mainline even if they had the chance. The days of management being able staff crews with FOs straight out of school for peanuts are gone.

Management wanted to lock in the existing conditions for as long as possible because they see the same things we do down the road. They will have to get more money from mainline to staff their regional feed, but they will wait until the last possible moment. For now, they are able to fill classes so they are not under presure to do so. However those conditions will not last much longer.


In the end, in the current environment Mesa pilots simply expect to be paid more than they were during the past decade. If Mesa can't find the money to do that, then there are better options out there.
 
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BobDDuck said:
The problem of course is that for places like Mesa and Republic, there is no more money in the banana stand. Regionals have bid with such thin margins for such a long time (to capture flying) there just isn't room for more pilot pay under the current system.

That leaves three options.

1) The regional goes to the mainline operator and says we need more money to cover out costs. (with probably very little success until EVERY regional providing feed has done the same thing)

2) The pilots take a contract based off of what a company can actually pay and not what they are actually worth.

3) The company goes out of business (because they can't staff)

Option 1 won't be happening because we are rapidly approaching the price point where it makes sense for the major to do the flying themselves and because there are still regionals with low enough overhead that they can continue to operate on the very thin margins of FFD.

Option 2 doesn't seem to be happening as pilots see how much money the major carriers are making and assume that a piece of that pie should be for them.

Option 3 hasn't happened yet as there are still, for a little bit longer anyway, plenty of stary eyed newbies who want to get into a jet.
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The delicious Mallard nailed it here.

Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, who knows for sure.
 
86% No Vote. Is a strong statement! Not just a No vote. It's a HELL NO VOTE.

Yet mgmt is able to fill class...

Is it possible that Mesa recruiting team has been very effective in recruiting segments of the pilot pool whose priorities in selecting a regional to fly for are:
1. QuickUpgrade. 2. No hassle interview process. 3 Big Shinny Jet.

Now regional pilots are starting to gain some level of self-respect.

This is good news, as well as the recent news of TSA being the highest paid regional in the lower 49. My oooh my, how the regional airline industry look so different than 2 years ago.
 
USMCmech said:
The old paradigm of flying a 1900 for 2-3 years in a regional network for crappy pay simply doesn't apply any more. We are flying midsize jets on cross country routes which in many cases were previously served by mainline. Many of our pilots have been here for nearly a decade (or longer) and quite a few are not in a position to move up to mainline even if they had the chance. The days of management being able staff crews with FOs straight out of school for peanuts are gone.
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My father calls my company a commuter still.

"Yep, tanking it up to fly all the way DEN-RDU..."
 
BobDDuck said:
The problem of course is that for places like Mesa and Republic, there is no more money in the banana stand. Regionals have bid with such thin margins for such a long time (to capture flying) there just isn't room for more pilot pay under the current system.

That leaves three options.

1) The regional goes to the mainline operator and says we need more money to cover out costs. (with probably very little success until EVERY regional providing feed has done the same thing)

2) The pilots take a contract based off of what a company can actually pay and not what they are actually worth.

3) The company goes out of business (because they can't staff)

Option 1 won't be happening because we are rapidly approaching the price point where it makes sense for the major to do the flying themselves and because there are still regionals with low enough overhead that they can continue to operate on the very thin margins of FFD.

Option 2 doesn't seem to be happening as pilots see how much money the major carriers are making and assume that a piece of that pie should be for them.

Option 3 hasn't happened yet as there are still, for a little bit longer anyway, plenty of stary eyed newbies who want to get into a jet.
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I pretty much just liked this for the Arrested Development reference.
 
AAPalmTree said:
Yup. Look at @ATN_Pilot. If he was happy on the outside he wouldn't hang here. Amirite?
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He cheated by buying a plane with a backwards vert stab!

Personally I think the people that are easily able to leave the industry go to a profession they already have been a part of or already own a business. Helps take the "green" veneer away.
 
elmetal said:
So you can do "what's best for your family" but Mesa guys aren't allowed?

Please, someone, help me see the difference
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How is voting in this TA necessarily what's best for the Mesa guys and their families? They voted it down, so obviously they made the decision thy thought was best... Not sure the point your trying to make!
 
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