Jet On Fire at LAS
- Thread starter Hacker15e
- Start date
Yes, and they got criticized pretty heavily for that. Like I said, a good few procedural screwups and learning points from a couple different areas came up on that one. These that could've been quite serious.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...d-baggage-from-burning-aircraft-10493667.html
BA plane fire: Pilots condemn passengers who carried baggage from burning aircraft
170 people were safely evacuated from a British Airways jet ablaze in Las Vegas
Simon Calder
Thursday, 10 September 2015
After 170 people safely evacuated from a British Airways jet ablaze on the runway in Las Vegas, pilots lambasted passengers who insisted on carrying cabin baggage as they evacuated the plane.
A fire broke out in the port engine of the 26-year old Boeing 777-200 on the runway at McCarran airport. BA flight 2276 was departing from the Nevada city to Gatwick with 157 passengers and 13 crew on board.
The captain, Chris Henkey from Reading, brought the aircraft to a halt and ordered an evacuation using the aircraft’s inflatable slides.
Still photographs and video footage shows a number of passengers running from the burning plane with their cabin baggage, including wheeled suitcases, in breach of aviation law.
One of the passengers was Sid Langley, a retired journalist from Northamptonshire. He later posted on Facebook that he “did the right thing, grabbed wife and ran,” while “other silly buggers fiddled around” retrieving hand luggage from overhead lockers.
In BA’s pre-flight briefings, passengers are instructed in the event of an emergency evacuation “to move quickly to the nearest available exit, taking nothing with you”.
Laurie Price, an aviation executive and private pilot, told The Independent: “Wheeled cases could easily have ripped the escape slides, rendering them unusable and prejudicing passengers’ safe exit, whilst cases in the aisle make a confused situation even worse.”
Captain Brendan O’Neal, chairman of the British Airline Pilots’ Association (BALPA), praised the pilots and cabin crew but called on airlines and regulators to educate passengers on the danger of bringing hand baggage with them during an evacuation. He said: “Failing to follow the instructions of the crew by stopping to collect luggage is extremely dangerous.”
Such passengers are also breaking the law. Civil Aviation Authority rules stipulate: “A person must not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person in an aircraft.” Passengers must also obey the crew’s commands.
Read more: What is the safest form of transport?
Pilot of Flight 2276 Chris Henkey praised as 'absolute hero'
Passengers describe 'scary' plane evacuation
British Airways Boeing 777 catches fire on runway
Before an aircraft is certified for passenger use, the plane maker must demonstrate that a full payload of passengers and crew can evacuate within 90 seconds - but such tests are carried out with volunteers unencumbered by baggage. It helped that the BA aircraft at Las Vegas was little more than half-full, allowing all the passengers and crew to leave within a few minutes despite some exits being unusable because of fire.
In pictures: British Airways plane fire
The evacuation used lessons learned in the most recent BA fatal accident, which had a number of similarities. In August 1985, an engine fire broke out as a charter flight from Manchester to Corfu accelerated along the runway. Fifty-five of the 137 people on board died, mainly from smoke inhalation.
After the disaster, safety measures were imposed worldwide to increase survivability, and it is possible that some of the 170 people on board flight BA2276 owe their lives to those enhancements.
Over a dozen passengers were injured during the emergency evacuation. In a statement, British Airways said: “Customers who were taken to hospital have all been released following care and treatment. The National Transportation Safety Board [NTSB] in the US is conducting an investigation into the incident and we will give them our fullest support.”
The aircraft manufacturer said in a statement: “Boeing is prepared to provide technical assistance to the NTSB following today's incident at McCarran Airport in Las Vegas.”
As the investigation unfolds, it could lead to pressure to end the sale of duty-free spirits at airports and aboard aircraft. The official report into the Manchester disaster said it was “likely” that passengers’ bottles of duty-free spirits accelerated the spread of fire through the cabin.
Passengers on the stricken jet at Las Vegas were provided with hotel rooms while alternative travel arrangements were made. The British Airways website said flight BA2276 was “delayed overnight,” but insisted “all of our other flights are continuing to operate as normal”. A Boeing 777 was flown from Heathrow to Gatwick to maintain the schedule.
BA plane fire: Pilots condemn passengers who carried baggage from burning aircraft
170 people were safely evacuated from a British Airways jet ablaze in Las Vegas
Simon Calder
Thursday, 10 September 2015
After 170 people safely evacuated from a British Airways jet ablaze on the runway in Las Vegas, pilots lambasted passengers who insisted on carrying cabin baggage as they evacuated the plane.
A fire broke out in the port engine of the 26-year old Boeing 777-200 on the runway at McCarran airport. BA flight 2276 was departing from the Nevada city to Gatwick with 157 passengers and 13 crew on board.
The captain, Chris Henkey from Reading, brought the aircraft to a halt and ordered an evacuation using the aircraft’s inflatable slides.
Still photographs and video footage shows a number of passengers running from the burning plane with their cabin baggage, including wheeled suitcases, in breach of aviation law.
One of the passengers was Sid Langley, a retired journalist from Northamptonshire. He later posted on Facebook that he “did the right thing, grabbed wife and ran,” while “other silly buggers fiddled around” retrieving hand luggage from overhead lockers.
In BA’s pre-flight briefings, passengers are instructed in the event of an emergency evacuation “to move quickly to the nearest available exit, taking nothing with you”.
Laurie Price, an aviation executive and private pilot, told The Independent: “Wheeled cases could easily have ripped the escape slides, rendering them unusable and prejudicing passengers’ safe exit, whilst cases in the aisle make a confused situation even worse.”
Captain Brendan O’Neal, chairman of the British Airline Pilots’ Association (BALPA), praised the pilots and cabin crew but called on airlines and regulators to educate passengers on the danger of bringing hand baggage with them during an evacuation. He said: “Failing to follow the instructions of the crew by stopping to collect luggage is extremely dangerous.”
Such passengers are also breaking the law. Civil Aviation Authority rules stipulate: “A person must not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person in an aircraft.” Passengers must also obey the crew’s commands.
Read more: What is the safest form of transport?
Pilot of Flight 2276 Chris Henkey praised as 'absolute hero'
Passengers describe 'scary' plane evacuation
British Airways Boeing 777 catches fire on runway
Before an aircraft is certified for passenger use, the plane maker must demonstrate that a full payload of passengers and crew can evacuate within 90 seconds - but such tests are carried out with volunteers unencumbered by baggage. It helped that the BA aircraft at Las Vegas was little more than half-full, allowing all the passengers and crew to leave within a few minutes despite some exits being unusable because of fire.
In pictures: British Airways plane fire
The evacuation used lessons learned in the most recent BA fatal accident, which had a number of similarities. In August 1985, an engine fire broke out as a charter flight from Manchester to Corfu accelerated along the runway. Fifty-five of the 137 people on board died, mainly from smoke inhalation.
After the disaster, safety measures were imposed worldwide to increase survivability, and it is possible that some of the 170 people on board flight BA2276 owe their lives to those enhancements.
Over a dozen passengers were injured during the emergency evacuation. In a statement, British Airways said: “Customers who were taken to hospital have all been released following care and treatment. The National Transportation Safety Board [NTSB] in the US is conducting an investigation into the incident and we will give them our fullest support.”
The aircraft manufacturer said in a statement: “Boeing is prepared to provide technical assistance to the NTSB following today's incident at McCarran Airport in Las Vegas.”
As the investigation unfolds, it could lead to pressure to end the sale of duty-free spirits at airports and aboard aircraft. The official report into the Manchester disaster said it was “likely” that passengers’ bottles of duty-free spirits accelerated the spread of fire through the cabin.
Passengers on the stricken jet at Las Vegas were provided with hotel rooms while alternative travel arrangements were made. The British Airways website said flight BA2276 was “delayed overnight,” but insisted “all of our other flights are continuing to operate as normal”. A Boeing 777 was flown from Heathrow to Gatwick to maintain the schedule.
26 years old, huh?http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...d-baggage-from-burning-aircraft-10493667.html
BA plane fire: Pilots condemn passengers who carried baggage from burning aircraft
170 people were safely evacuated from a British Airways jet ablaze in Las Vegas
Simon Calder
Thursday, 10 September 2015
After 170 people safely evacuated from a British Airways jet ablaze on the runway in Las Vegas, pilots lambasted passengers who insisted on carrying cabin baggage as they evacuated the plane.
A fire broke out in the port engine of the 26-year old Boeing 777-200 on the runway at McCarran airport. BA flight 2276 was departing from the Nevada city to Gatwick with 157 passengers and 13 crew on board.
The captain, Chris Henkey from Reading, brought the aircraft to a halt and ordered an evacuation using the aircraft’s inflatable slides.
Still photographs and video footage shows a number of passengers running from the burning plane with their cabin baggage, including wheeled suitcases, in breach of aviation law.
One of the passengers was Sid Langley, a retired journalist from Northamptonshire. He later posted on Facebook that he “did the right thing, grabbed wife and ran,” while “other silly buggers fiddled around” retrieving hand luggage from overhead lockers.
In BA’s pre-flight briefings, passengers are instructed in the event of an emergency evacuation “to move quickly to the nearest available exit, taking nothing with you”.
Laurie Price, an aviation executive and private pilot, told The Independent: “Wheeled cases could easily have ripped the escape slides, rendering them unusable and prejudicing passengers’ safe exit, whilst cases in the aisle make a confused situation even worse.”
Captain Brendan O’Neal, chairman of the British Airline Pilots’ Association (BALPA), praised the pilots and cabin crew but called on airlines and regulators to educate passengers on the danger of bringing hand baggage with them during an evacuation. He said: “Failing to follow the instructions of the crew by stopping to collect luggage is extremely dangerous.”
Such passengers are also breaking the law. Civil Aviation Authority rules stipulate: “A person must not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person in an aircraft.” Passengers must also obey the crew’s commands.
Read more: What is the safest form of transport?
Pilot of Flight 2276 Chris Henkey praised as 'absolute hero'
Passengers describe 'scary' plane evacuation
British Airways Boeing 777 catches fire on runway
Before an aircraft is certified for passenger use, the plane maker must demonstrate that a full payload of passengers and crew can evacuate within 90 seconds - but such tests are carried out with volunteers unencumbered by baggage. It helped that the BA aircraft at Las Vegas was little more than half-full, allowing all the passengers and crew to leave within a few minutes despite some exits being unusable because of fire.
In pictures: British Airways plane fire
The evacuation used lessons learned in the most recent BA fatal accident, which had a number of similarities. In August 1985, an engine fire broke out as a charter flight from Manchester to Corfu accelerated along the runway. Fifty-five of the 137 people on board died, mainly from smoke inhalation.
After the disaster, safety measures were imposed worldwide to increase survivability, and it is possible that some of the 170 people on board flight BA2276 owe their lives to those enhancements.
Over a dozen passengers were injured during the emergency evacuation. In a statement, British Airways said: “Customers who were taken to hospital have all been released following care and treatment. The National Transportation Safety Board [NTSB] in the US is conducting an investigation into the incident and we will give them our fullest support.”
The aircraft manufacturer said in a statement: “Boeing is prepared to provide technical assistance to the NTSB following today's incident at McCarran Airport in Las Vegas.”
As the investigation unfolds, it could lead to pressure to end the sale of duty-free spirits at airports and aboard aircraft. The official report into the Manchester disaster said it was “likely” that passengers’ bottles of duty-free spirits accelerated the spread of fire through the cabin.
Passengers on the stricken jet at Las Vegas were provided with hotel rooms while alternative travel arrangements were made. The British Airways website said flight BA2276 was “delayed overnight,” but insisted “all of our other flights are continuing to operate as normal”. A Boeing 777 was flown from Heathrow to Gatwick to maintain the schedule.
Does anyone fact check anymore?
At least ATC didn't hold the responding fire trucks back from crossing a runway due to normal landing traffic that was a few miles out.
Biggest problem with bags and such isn't just the bunch up in the cabin aisles, it's also the potential damage/destruction to the slides, as well as injuries to those on the slides.
Biggest problem with bags and such isn't just the bunch up in the cabin aisles, it's also the potential damage/destruction to the slides, as well as injuries to those on the slides.
Have they ever done that? Seems like the prudent thing to do is tell them to go around.
It's not the fire you see that's going to kill you, it's the fumes and noxious gases you don't.
If we're doing an evac, I'm Audi-5.
Yes. In the FedEx 647 crash. At MEM, there are three separate ARFF departments: the MEM airport ARFF, the Tennessee ANG (USAF) ARFF department, and then there's contract ARFF located on the FedEx ramp. The contract ARFF units existed primarily to protect the FedEx ramp, but they assisted MEM airport ARFF units in any inflight emergency or actual accident also. When 647 crashed on RW 36R, the MEM airport units were responding to the scene from their station. And additionally, the contract ARFF units began responding from the FedEx ramp, but got held up for about 3 or so minutes at a taxiway intersection and forced to hold short of RW 9/27, while ATC allowed normal distant traffic to land on the runway they were trying to cross to get to the scene.
Some interesting history in the FedEx 647 accident, is that it was the first aircraft accident to have the new Snozzle elevating boom with piercing nozzle utilized, to where the fuselage of the aircraft can be pierced by the sharp nozzle in the ceiling area, and introduce foam into the interior of the aircraft. And ironically, it was the private contract ARFF department who had the only truck equipped with it.
Excerpt here:
"Three MFD station no. 33 ARFF vehicles responded to the accident site. In addition, two ARFF trucks owned and operated by the Rural/Metro Fire Department (RMFD) responded to the accident. RMFD is contracted by FedEx to provide emergency medical and fire response services for its operations and is based on the FedEx ramp on the north side of the airport. It is staffed 24 hours a day/7 days a week and often participates in MEM airport emergency drills and exercises. The letter of agreement between the FAA, MSCAA, and MFD indicated that if an Alert II and/or III emergency occurred, the crash telephone at RMFD would automatically activate; however, there was no formal agreement between the airport authority, RMFD, and MFD that described RMFD responsibilities and involvement in emergency situations. During postaccident interviews, MFD and RMFD personnel indicated that the two fire companies had a good working relationship and conducted periodic coordination exercises. They stated that RMFD had an unwritten. agreement with MFD to assist MFD with all alert II and III ARFF activities (not only those involving FedEx airplanes).
The ARFF vehicles that were dispatched to the accident site by RMFD arrived several minutes after the MFD fire station no. 33 ARFF vehicles. According to the transcript of ATC communications on the ground control frequency, about 1228:08, RMFD ARFF personnel requested permission to travel to the accident site, and the MEM ground controller advised them to hold short of runway 27 because of landing traffic. A review of recorded radar data showed that, at that time, the arriving airplane was about 2.5 miles east of the end of runway 27. The ATC transcript showed that the ground controller began to brief a relief ground controller about 1228:58, and the briefing continued until about 1231:06.46 During this time (about 1229:28), the arriving airplane touched down.
About 1230:04 (during the briefing), the relief ground controller asked the ground controller, "want that fire vehicle out there too?" and, about 1230:06, the ground controller cleared the RMFD vehicles to cross runway 27. About 1231:20, the relief ground controller cleared the RMFD vehicles to proceed to the accident site. According to postaccident interviews with MEM ATCT personnel, RMFD ARFF vehicles normally operate on the FedEx ramp, which is not part of the airport movement area; therefore, it is not typically under the ATCT control. The ATCT controllers indicated that the RMFD vehicles were not considered primary emergency responders. The November 1, 2000, letter of agreement between MEM ATCT, the airport authority, and MFD fire station no. 33 addressing airport emergency procedures did not specify response procedures for the RMFD, but it noted that the airport crash phone rings at the FedEx (RMFD) fire station. The ATC controllers indicated that RMFD personnel were considered a secondary source for ARFF services, or unofficial .mutual aid,. although no formal mutual aid agreement was in effect."
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In the FedEx 647 accident, the other big part of the crash was the unexpected number of personnel found egressing from the aircraft. Noted here:
"Arriving ARFF units were surprised to see 7 personnel egress the aircraft. A briefing with the cargo operator after the accident revealed that on its MD-10 aircraft, there could be as many as 27 personnel on board, at any time. Additionally, in some configurations, personnel are located in the rear of the fuselage section. This is usually used during livestock transportation with the handlers in the rear, but may occur for other reasons.
If, after the accident, the crew was unable to advise ARFF of the total personnel on board, some passengers could be trapped based on an assumption of expected and limited crew.
The FAA suggests that airport operators and/or ARFF crews contact their cargo operators and explore avenues to determine the number of personnel that could possibly be expected on a particular aircraft. If possible, pre-plan with cargo operations for a way to obtain personnel manifests for incoming flights. At the minimum, expect that there could be a far greater number of personnel aboard than expected"
"Arriving ARFF units were surprised to see 7 personnel egress the aircraft. A briefing with the cargo operator after the accident revealed that on its MD-10 aircraft, there could be as many as 27 personnel on board, at any time. Additionally, in some configurations, personnel are located in the rear of the fuselage section. This is usually used during livestock transportation with the handlers in the rear, but may occur for other reasons.
If, after the accident, the crew was unable to advise ARFF of the total personnel on board, some passengers could be trapped based on an assumption of expected and limited crew.
The FAA suggests that airport operators and/or ARFF crews contact their cargo operators and explore avenues to determine the number of personnel that could possibly be expected on a particular aircraft. If possible, pre-plan with cargo operations for a way to obtain personnel manifests for incoming flights. At the minimum, expect that there could be a far greater number of personnel aboard than expected"
WAtreefifekaybeck
Well-Known Member
AAPalmTree
Well-Known Member
That DL guy was really clogging up the freq on the Vegas fire!
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
"All your emergency are belong to us!"
He was all hopped up on that sweet, delicious, Tier One Cake.
He was on that frequency like a spidah monkay!
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Glad I'm not the only one who caught that. Seriously, there's a plane burning and the controller is busy. Just go straight out runway heading (the hills are still far ahead) and up to published missed approach altitude. The controller will get to you in just a sec.
At least it was something operational.
My pet peeve is trying to tell ATC we're deviating around weather or something else and there's some jet checking in full of useless colloquialisms like "A'LAAAAANA astrojet forty one ninety six checkin' in witchya onboard at flight level two eight OH howyaDOOIN"
Waste. Of. Electrons.
My pet peeve is trying to tell ATC we're deviating around weather or something else and there's some jet checking in full of useless colloquialisms like "A'LAAAAANA astrojet forty one ninety six checkin' in witchya onboard at flight level two eight OH howyaDOOIN"
Waste. Of. Electrons.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
If that controller was really smart, she should have simply said, "Delta knock it off, Delta knock it off."
All 3 inbound Deltas to Vegas would have responded...
"Delta 2235 knock it off"
"Delta 1271 knockin' off"
"Delta 1883 knockin off"
All 3 inbound Deltas to Vegas would have responded...
"Delta 2235 knock it off"
"Delta 1271 knockin' off"
"Delta 1883 knockin off"
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I know. If you are at Delta and you don't get, that's good. If you get it, you're probably part of that problem.
