Drones and Common Sense Rant

Again: it is NOT ok that drones fly in a TRA or class A, B, C, D airspace. And of course not in other military restricted areas.

This argument "high tech peeping toms" is a complete nonsense. You can always hear a copter. Then you should also outlaw telescopes and long zoom lenses and the full scale choppers with their excellent cameras.
 
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The fact that I can hear it is irrelevant. I'm not allowed to discharge a firearm in the city limits to shoot your stupid thing out of the sky, so it needs to be banned.
 
Drone Flyer said:
Again: it is NOT ok that drones fly in a TRA or class A, B, C, D airspace. And of course not in other military restricted areas.

This argument "high tech peeping toms" is a complete nonsense. You can always hear a copter. Then you should also outlaw telescopes and long zoom lenses and the full scale choppers with their excellent cameras.
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What is your issue with the current regulations for hobby drones? Why aren't they good enough for you and your hobby? Besides the fact that drones can no longer fly/are now banned in any National Park (this includes 84 million acres in every state and territory, including monuments, battlefields, historic sites, seashores, rivers and trails) due to morons harassing sheep at Zion, landing in a geyser at Yellowstone, flying into a volcano in Hawaii, harassing climbers, campers and wildlife, crashing into the Grand Canyon, harassing birds, and more such stunts.

Meanwhile, states such as my own are in the process of (or already have) writing, passing and enacting more laws to restrict drones even further, because of all the issues with them. 45 states thus far, have done the same. What does that tell you? Hobby drone flyers shoot themselves in the ass at every turn. Drones are noisy, invasive and can be dangerous. They don't belong in most environments in truth. And apparently, a good number of those who fly them, have no common sense either, which is the entire premise of this thread. Because if they did, we wouldn't be seeing the incidents that we do.
 
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I completely agree that there are too many morons who spoil this hobby. That is why I suggested putting a flyer in every box from the dealer to tell the buyers what they can do and what they cannot do. Also you should give the serious hobbyist space to fly. I know that you don’t stop the idiots with this, but hopefully it’s getting better.
There is one issue that almost every FPV pilot has. The AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) says you must fly within line of sight (LOS). The FAA gives this as an advisory, but it is not a rule. But the technology has advanced.
If you just outlaw drones, the idiots keep on doing their crazy stuff and the ones who know what to do are the ones who are conned or duped.
 
Drone Flyer said:
I completely agree that there are too many morons who spoil this hobby. That is why I suggested putting a flyer in every box from the dealer to tell the buyers what they can do and what they cannot do. Also you should give the serious hobbyist space to fly. I know that you don’t stop the idiots with this, but hopefully it’s getting better.
There is one issue that almost every FPV pilot has. The AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) says you must fly within line of sight (LOS). The FAA gives this as an advisory, but it is not a rule. But the technology has advanced.
If you just outlaw drones, the idiots keep on doing their crazy stuff and the ones who know what to do are the ones who are conned or duped.
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If you think that some little flyer is going to work, or have any positive impact whatsoever, then you truly are delusional. And what flyer exactly do dealers put in the box? The FAA rules and also the rules that have now been mandated in each of the 45 states that have enacted their own rules? And you now are expecting the dealers to keep updating their flyers with each state's rules as they are modified and expanded? How do you plan on enforcing and policing that exactly? And what about all the thousands of drones that are purchased on line? Do you think the manufacturers are going to do this? Good grief.

More and special spaces to fly in? How about you addressing each of the issues in post 205, instead of ignoring them. Take out some maps and charts of Los Angeles County for example and let me know what areas you think would be 100% safe and would never ever have any chance of impacting any air traffic whatsoever and at what altitudes. Keep in mind the state's current drone rules and their new/expanded rules expected to be enacted as well.

The idiots are already doing whatever they please, regardless of the current rules. It's only going to get worse from here.

Are you not even aware of the FAA's campaign in educating drone flyers? http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/

What sincerely makes you think that the idiots care about this? That website has been up for a while now. It hasn't changed a damn thing. It's people's attitudes and behavior that are the issue. Most of them just don't care.
 
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Perhaps drone flyers are so desperate for their own special space that they think these two incidents were a good idea instead. Great to know they are following the existing rules too. Maybe they should have gotten a flyer. I guess there is no onus on the operators of these toys and no responsibility on them to even look at the rules on their own, let alone abide by them.

Drone crashes into Kentucky stadium

LEXINGTON, Ky. -- "A student's drone crashed into a part of newly renovated Commonwealth Stadium before the Wildcats' 40-33 win over Louisiana-Lafayette in their season opener, Kentucky officials confirmed Saturday.

School spokesman Jay Blanton said via email that the unmanned aircraft was recovered near the suite level. He added that there were no injuries to spectators or damages to the facility, which just underwent a $120 million renovation.

Blanton said school officials have talked to the student and that police are considering what steps to take.

As skydivers parachuted on to the field carrying American flags before kickoff, the drone hovered behind the scoreboard over the west end zone. It was in airspace close to heliports at nearby UK Chandler Hospital and Baptist Hospital.

It was the second incident involving a drone at a sports event in the past week.

An unmanned aircraft plummeted into empty seats and caused a scare during a women's singles match Thursday night at the US Open. No one was injured, but it broke into pieces as it crashed.

A high school science teacher who had been flying the drone from a park outside the tennis venue was arrested Friday on reckless endangerment and other charges, police said.

The Federal Aviation Administration put drone and model-plane enthusiasts on notice last October that it's illegal to fly the aircraft near Major League Baseball, NFL and NCAA Division I college football games and major auto races.

The move came months after police detained people for using small drones at Carolina Panthers and University of Texas football games. This past June, police questioned a man flying a drone near a gate at Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia during a Colorado Rockies-Philadelphia Phillies game."

http://espn.go.com/college-football...rashes-kentucky-wildcats-commonwealth-stadium
 
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ATN_Pilot said:
Yes, if your point is that drones are a ridiculous and dangerous waste, I definitely see your point.
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The military and police sure buy plenty of them. Plus, they are ultimately the test bed for the software that will replace airline pilots. Just a matter of time.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
The military and police sure buy plenty of them.
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I think you know that this discussion is about hobby drones. The military certainly has valid uses for them, and perhaps even the police, although I'd like to put a bunch of restrictions on them, also.

Plus, they are ultimately the test bed for the software that will replace airline pilots. Just a matter of time.
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This again? We'll both be dead and buried for a century before the first commercial airliner flies without a pilot at the pointy end.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I think you know that this discussion is about hobby drones. The military certainly has valid uses for them, and perhaps even the police, although I'd like to put a bunch of restrictions on them, also.



This again? We'll both be dead and buried for a century before the first commercial airliner flies without a pilot at the pointy end.
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Well, it would make sense to be in front of the regulation and licensing of said things now. As it is going to happen anyway.

Just as sure as driverless cars will be ubiquitous, so will drones. You liking them or not is irrelevant.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Well, it would make sense to be in front of the regulation and licensing of said things now. As it is going to happen anyway. Just as sure as driverless cars will be ubiquitous, so will drones. You liking them or not is irrelevant.
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I disagree that ubiquitous hobby drones are an inevitability. There is still time to stop these things. Not much time, though.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I disagree that ubiquitous hobby drones are an inevitability. There is still time to stop these things. Not much time, though.
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A local retailer sold over 2000 at a fair last week. Small, but once you get them hooked....
 
Let me try to answer your post [HASHTAG]#205[/HASHTAG]:
"no eyes on them and why the hell do they need to be at that altitude?"
Now I should ask you if you are kidding me. Why do we fly in a full scale plane in 10000 ft in our spare time? I think some of you have no idea about drones. A UAV has at least one camera, often two and some of them three. The camera(s) can be tilted and panned and you can switch between cameras. If you fly a Cessna 17x then you have no view upwards or downwards, you can barely look behind you. But with a drone you can!

Maybe we have a misunderstanding here. I guess most of you think about the small quadcopters, up to 14" in diameter, when you talk about drones. These toys are hard to see, like birds. I am talking about bigger things and especially planes. An RC model can be flown without any permission up to an AUW of 55 lbs. With this you can build planes of 20 ft wingspan that can fly for more than 40 hours. Some drones can go 200 kn.

The smallest manned aircraft that I know is the CriCri. It has a wingspan of only 16.5 ft. But it is fully accept in the air. Why shouldn't it be allowed to fly a drone, bigger than a CriCri?
How big should a drone be before you accept it in the air?

Today you only need a driver's license, a minimum of 20 hours of training, passing a written, an oral and a practical test to fly an LSA. Why do you still need to sit inside a plane if you can fly it with a remote control and camera(s)? Don’t tell me that it could fail. There are enough examples where pilots failed. And the drones have something that is called failsafe and RTH. That's safer than most pilots.

What is LEO?
"How about actual aircraft in an emergency situation? What about rescue helicopters and medical helicopters? What about firefighting planes and choppers?"
The rule is: see and avoid. You can also do it with a drone.

Thank you for the following questions:
"How about search planes and choppers?" These flights are the first to be replaced from drones.
"What about mapping and surveillance aircraft?" This will soon be replaced from drones.
"What about aircraft and choppers flown by and for ranchers, and farmers for various reasons?" Agriculture is the best example for the useful operation of drones.
"What about Fish and Game aircraft?" Same like agriculture.
I think you don’t know what is going on.

The military is flying drones since the 1960s. Now the technology is available and affordable for more people. Give them their space to fly!
I think some of you are still living in the last century.

We don’t need to talk about commercial IFR flights. No one should cross their way.
I am only talking about class G and E airspace and VFR.

I knew the "Know before you fly" campaign since it was started.
 
Drone Flyer said:
Let me try to answer your post [HASHTAG]#205[/HASHTAG]:
"no eyes on them and why the hell do they need to be at that altitude?"
Now I should ask you if you are kidding me. Why do we fly in a full scale plane in 10000 ft in our spare time? I think some of you have no idea about drones. A UAV has at least one camera, often two and some of them three. The camera(s) can be tilted and panned and you can switch between cameras. If you fly a Cessna 17x then you have no view upwards or downwards, you can barely look behind you. But with a drone you can!

Maybe we have a misunderstanding here. I guess most of you think about the small quadcopters, up to 14" in diameter, when you talk about drones. These toys are hard to see, like birds. I am talking about bigger things and especially planes. An RC model can be flown without any permission up to an AUW of 55 lbs. With this you can build planes of 20 ft wingspan that can fly for more than 40 hours. Some drones can go 200 kn.

The smallest manned aircraft that I know is the CriCri. It has a wingspan of only 16.5 ft. But it is fully accept in the air. Why shouldn't it be allowed to fly a drone, bigger than a CriCri?
How big should a drone be before you accept it in the air?

Today you only need a driver's license, a minimum of 20 hours of training, passing a written, an oral and a practical test to fly an LSA. Why do you still need to sit inside a plane if you can fly it with a remote control and camera(s)? Don’t tell me that it could fail. There are enough examples where pilots failed. And the drones have something that is called failsafe and RTH. That's safer than most pilots.

What is LEO?
"How about actual aircraft in an emergency situation? What about rescue helicopters and medical helicopters? What about firefighting planes and choppers?"
The rule is: see and avoid. You can also do it with a drone.

Thank you for the following questions:
"How about search planes and choppers?" These flights are the first to be replaced from drones.
"What about mapping and surveillance aircraft?" This will soon be replaced from drones.
"What about aircraft and choppers flown by and for ranchers, and farmers for various reasons?" Agriculture is the best example for the useful operation of drones.
"What about Fish and Game aircraft?" Same like agriculture.
I think you don’t know what is going on.

The military is flying drones since the 1960s. Now the technology is available and affordable for more people. Give them their space to fly!
I think some of you are still living in the last century.

We don’t need to talk about commercial IFR flights. No one should cross their way.
I am only talking about class G and E airspace and VFR.

I knew the "Know before you fly" campaign since it was started.
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A human needs to be in the cockpit because they have eyes. Eyes have peripheral vision. Eyes have a greater field of vision than cameras. They can focus near and far instantly. Eyes see in three dimensions. Now you want to use your three dimensional eyes to look through a two dimensional camera? You mention multiple viewing angles. How are you going to see and avoid while viewing a camera that is pointed straight down or behind you? Eyes are why pilots need to be in aircraft. This is why small aircraft like the Cri Cri are acceptable. This is why LSA is acceptable.
 
Drone Flyer said:
What is LEO?
"How about actual aircraft in an emergency situation? What about rescue helicopters and medical helicopters? What about firefighting planes and choppers?"
The rule is: see and avoid. You can also do it with a drone.

.
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The rule inded is see and avoid.......for other aircraft. For something miniature in size that's at an altitude where its nothing more than a hazard to operations such as firefighting and LE, where the majority of focus is spent on the ground situation, seeing and avoiding these often slow-moving or hovering objects, is next to impossible before a collision.

Far easier said than done.
 
PositionAndHold said:
A human needs to be in the cockpit because they have eyes. Eyes have peripheral vision. Eyes have a greater field of vision than cameras. They can focus near and far instantly. Eyes see in three dimensions. Now you want to use your three dimensional eyes to look through a two dimensional camera? You mention multiple viewing angles. How are you going to see and avoid while viewing a camera that is pointed straight down or behind you? Eyes are why pilots need to be in aircraft. This is why small aircraft like the Cri Cri are acceptable. This is why LSA is acceptable.
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That's also why planes like military UAVs aren't allowed to fly VFR in general airspace, unless they're in a particular corridor or unless they're escorted by a chase plane. The camera does not suffice for visual lookout.
 
MikeD said:
That's also why planes like military UAVs aren't allowed to fly VFR in general airspace, unless they're in a particular corridor or unless they're escorted by a chase plane. The camera does not suffice for visual lookout.
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I was going to mention that because that's the last I heard as well. Since tech keeps expanding I wasn't sure what current rules/capabilities were. You just don't have the any depth perception when trying to operate a vehicle while looking through a camera.
 
Even if they did 'see', the avoid is very problematic. The video resolution is very low, and therefore SA is very low. That and the ability to 'avoid' while going 25 mph.

The only solution is the one I see is the one I employ: Stay the hell away from anything remotely considered usable airspace, low, close, and with a spotter. No cities.
 
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