Ameriflight

BobAir said:
Hi, A150K,

I’m scheduled to start AMF’s training for the Chieftain on September 8th with the U.S. Aviation Academy prep week in Denton. I’ve been working through the training materials and have some questions I hope you’ll answer.

1. Pages 34 and 35 (weather) of the Indoc Study Guide essentially copies the table of contents of Aviation Weather (AC 00-6A). Does AMF really expect newbies to know High Altitude Weather, Arctic Weather, and Tropical Weather? I’d like to spend my limited time studying other, more likely topics.

2. I read somewhere there is an admission/acceptance test the first day. Is this correct and, if so, is that test a checking item or simply to get a level set on where everyone in the class is book-learning wise?

3. The Chieftain performance and systems materials seem a little thin. For example, I couldn’t find Vx, Vy, Vno and Va (at lighter weights). I assume we’ll go through the AFM in more detail in class since that information isn’t in the training package.

4. Some fuel quantities are given in gallons and others in pounds. Should I learn gallons, pounds or both?

5. Is there a power/pitch/performance table for the Chieftain? For example, the SOP calls for 10 degrees pitch up at rotation and then to pitch down to 130 KTS at 1000’ AGL. What airspeed does takeoff power and 10 degrees pitch up give you?

6. The SOP isn’t clear about use of flaps on approach. The materials call for 120 KTS throughout the approach and then put down flaps as appropriate when the landing is assured while slowing to Vref of 90 KTS. This seems like the exact opposite of a stabilized approach if you don’t add flaps until breaking out 200 and 1/2 on an ILS, for example.

7. When do you pull the continuous duty fuel pump circuit breakers? I don’t see that item called out on the After Landing, Shut Down or Terminating flows or checklists.

8. I’ve been reading you posts about your AMF training with great interest. Today you mentioned a partial panel/single engine ILS. My paper tiger shows a full six-pack on the right side of the panel. Does partial panel mean that you have at least one working attitude indicator or does AMF expect you to fly an ILS to minimums with no pitch reference except VSI, airspeed, power and the GS needle? (This is one reason why a power/pitch/performance table would be nice to have.) I have recent (simulated) no-gyro partial panel ILS experience and, frankly, I struggled quite a bit to keep the GS needle in the ball park. Should I go back in the sim even before showing up in Denton?

I hope you don’t mind this deluge of questions and I really look forward to your answers.

Thanks and take care,

Bob
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I have several hundred hours in a chieftain and I can't imagine any circumstance other than maintenance where you would have to pull the pump breakers.

And the flap procedure seems insane. Flaps 15 joining the fac and aiming for 150 downhill works real good. ..
 
Roger Roger said:
I have several hundred hours in a chieftain and I can't imagine any circumstance other than maintenance where you would have to pull the pump breakers.

And the flap procedure seems insane. Flaps 15 joining the fac and aiming for 150 downhill works real good. ..
Click to expand...

Roger don't confuse the way you operate a PA31, to the way AMF operates one, as they are different.
 
Inverted said:
Roger don't confuse the way you operate a PA31, to the way AMF operates one, as they are different.
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I know, it's just such a good flying airplane that makes a lot of sense when flown the way Piper intended it to be flown that any time the amflight way comes up I can't not comment.
 
Wait...they want you to pull the breakers (or "flip the breaker switches" as I've seen in some PA31s)? Why? That doesn't really make any sense to me.
 
Yeah, all flaps are added on short final. I heard the fact that the dukes flap system is prone to asymmetrical deployment is the driving force behind that, but I still find it to be an odd procedure nor do I really understand why such a procedure was developed for such a problem. Not to mention the really low gear speed that we use..
 
BobAir said:
Hi, A150K,

I’m scheduled to start AMF’s training for the Chieftain on September 8th with the U.S. Aviation Academy prep week in Denton. I’ve been working through the training materials and have some questions I hope you’ll answer.

1. Pages 34 and 35 (weather) of the Indoc Study Guide essentially copies the table of contents of Aviation Weather (AC 00-6A). Does AMF really expect newbies to know High Altitude Weather, Arctic Weather, and Tropical Weather? I’d like to spend my limited time studying other, more likely topics.

2. I read somewhere there is an admission/acceptance test the first day. Is this correct and, if so, is that test a checking item or simply to get a level set on where everyone in the class is book-learning wise?

3. The Chieftain performance and systems materials seem a little thin. For example, I couldn’t find Vx, Vy, Vno and Va (at lighter weights). I assume we’ll go through the AFM in more detail in class since that information isn’t in the training package.

4. Some fuel quantities are given in gallons and others in pounds. Should I learn gallons, pounds or both?

5. Is there a power/pitch/performance table for the Chieftain? For example, the SOP calls for 10 degrees pitch up at rotation and then to pitch down to 130 KTS at 1000’ AGL. What airspeed does takeoff power and 10 degrees pitch up give you?

6. The SOP isn’t clear about use of flaps on approach. The materials call for 120 KTS throughout the approach and then put down flaps as appropriate when the landing is assured while slowing to Vref of 90 KTS. This seems like the exact opposite of a stabilized approach if you don’t add flaps until breaking out 200 and 1/2 on an ILS, for example.

7. When do you pull the continuous duty fuel pump circuit breakers? I don’t see that item called out on the After Landing, Shut Down or Terminating flows or checklists.

8. I’ve been reading you posts about your AMF training with great interest. Today you mentioned a partial panel/single engine ILS. My paper tiger shows a full six-pack on the right side of the panel. Does partial panel mean that you have at least one working attitude indicator or does AMF expect you to fly an ILS to minimums with no pitch reference except VSI, airspeed, power and the GS needle? (This is one reason why a power/pitch/performance table would be nice to have.) I have recent (simulated) no-gyro partial panel ILS experience and, frankly, I struggled quite a bit to keep the GS needle in the ball park. Should I go back in the sim even before showing up in Denton?

I hope you don’t mind this deluge of questions and I really look forward to your answers.

Thanks and take care,

Bob
Click to expand...
1. No don't waste your time on that stuff.

2.There is a small test covering basic IFR stuff and weather (as in decoding metars and the stages of a thunderstorm. Nothing too complex there) that they give the first day. They claim it's only used for their own records to see where people are at knowledge wise.

3. You won't really get into the AFM. Just learn the numbers in the SOP for now. Those will get you through all the tests and then you can dig more into the AFM to fill the holes once you're on the line. Fwiw, I think best angle with two engines is somewhere around 85 since that's the airspeed called for when performing a winds hear escape maneuver.

4. Pounds for all flight planning purposes. Though, you'll want to memorize how much fuel each of the four tanks hold in gallons.

5. Blue line (106) to 1,000 then 130 afterwards.

6. See my previous post

7. It's on the terminating checklist, which is a do list, so no flow beforehand. I think the reason they have us pull the breakers is to somehow keep us from turning the battery on and then accidently falling into the mixtures causing them to go full forward and flooding the engines :p that's my only guess.

8. In the sim, the FO instruments don't work, so you won't get to use those. They'll give you some hand outs and power points with suggested power settings for everything. I found that 16-17 inches or so worked pretty well in the sim for precision approaches. But yeah, if you feel a little shaky on partial panel pitch control, use Denton as an opportunity to work on that.
 
Why would you do anything with partial panel when that's not on the checkride, or required or ever reasonably going to happen?
 
Is there no partial panel on the checkride? I just took a look at 135.297 and it says "recovery from simulated emergencies", so that kinda opens up a wide area of possibilities.
 
A150K said:
Is there no partial panel on the checkride? I just took a look at 135.297 and it says "recovery from simulated emergencies", so that kinda opens up a wide area of possibilities.
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I forget exactly how its worded but when you have 2 sets of gyros powered by different sources, you don't have to. IIRC the left side panel was mostly electric with the right side pneumatic.
I have not done partial panel on a checkride since my commercial ticket.
 
z987k said:
Why would you do anything with partial panel when that's not on the checkride, or required or ever reasonably going to happen?
Click to expand...

Bro, you've never had gear issues after an engine failure RIGHT on rotation, AND have your HSI fail? Oh and you have to shoot a full DME arc to a raw data NDB approach. That seemed to happened to me at least once a week, so glad I was prepared for it lol.


Speaking of gallons versus pounds. Anyone remember the OAK bowtie rapist telling you that airplanes burn pounds not gallons? I told him in Russia they burn litters and it confused him immensely.
 
z987k said:
I forget exactly how its worded but when you have 2 sets of gyros powered by different sources, you don't have to. IIRC the left side panel was mostly electric with the right side pneumatic.
I have not done partial panel on a checkride since my commercial ticket.
Click to expand...

That is a training event, not a checking event. Partial panel stuff has no business on a 135 or 121 check ride, which is why nobody does it. I am almost positive I never did one at AMF, but I certainly did it in training.
 
A150K, should I brush up on how to do an ADF approach? I haven't done one in a verrrry long time.

Bob
 
BobAir said:
A150K, should I brush up on how to do an ADF approach? I haven't done one in a verrrry long time.

Bob
Click to expand...

It probably wouldn't hurt. Ameriflight still serves a few airports where your only options are RNAV or NDB approaches and you are pretty much guaranteed to not have a /G airplane on the days you need it. Dispatch doesn't like hearing "I don't know how to fly an NDB approach" as your reason for wanting to delay. I doubt you would be punished for not wanting to go or delaying, but you certainly will be expected to be comfortable going. The new pre-training sims they are doing would be a great opportunity to work on NDB stuff I'm sure.
 
Reading this novel of a thread makes me wonder in disbelief what kind of company is taking us over.

MJ_popcorn.jpg... :(
 
Inverted: Thanks. It sounds like the equipment in the AMF Chieftain fleet is a dog's breakfast. I'll study up on both types.

Bob
 
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