Delta A320 vs Hail

Dayum. Ran around some nasty weather last night as well. Dude on our (crappy) forums said he was running around the same storm system as the DL bird last night and everyone was getting fooled by overhangs that weren't painting a thing and lots of high cirrus obscuring the bad stuff. Gotta love those days.
 
Baronman said:
Hail can get thrown quite far from a storm and it doesn't reflect on radar. You're well clear of a storm both visually and on your radar screen and you still smash ice. Water reflects well, ice doesn't.
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http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gl)/guides/rs/rad/appl/hail.rxml
This image shows some severe thunderstorm cells in western Illinois and eastern Missouri on April 19, 1996. The small regions of high reflectivity (shades of purple and gray) located near the edges of these storms are likely to be regions where large hail is falling. Typically, radar reflectivities associated with hail have values exceeding 60 dBZ.

hail.gif
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Isolated hail balls away from a storm might not show up much on radar, but in and of itself, hail is the most highly reflective thing a radar can see. Hail stones absorb very little light, they reflect almost all of it back. And even the smallest hailstones are much larger than the average rain droplet.

Edit: Quoted wrong person. Oops.
 
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gotWXdagain said:
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gl)/guides/rs/rad/appl/hail.rxml


Isolated hail balls away from a storm might not show up much on radar, but in and of itself, hail is the most highly reflective thing a radar can see. Hail stones absorb very little light, they reflect almost all of it back. And even the smallest hailstones are much larger than the average rain droplet.

Edit: Quoted wrong person. Oops.
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Everything you stated is true only for wet hail. When the hail is in the cell it is wet as it is still growing. Dry hail, such as hail that has been ejected from the storm cell, has very poor reflectivity.


http://www.nwas.org/committees/avnwxcourse/airplanes_and_some_radar_tips.htm
 
I recently flew with a guy who every chance he could get deviated around the downwind side of the storm. I have no idea why. He was a really anal guy, also really smart, I just don't see why you would go on the downwind side unless it's a huge difference in distance/time/etc.
 
wheelsup said:
I recently flew with a guy who every chance he could get deviated around the downwind side of the storm. I have no idea why. He was a really anal guy, also really smart, I just don't see why you would go on the downwind side unless it's a huge difference in distance/time/etc.
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I assume by downwind side you mean the side the storm is blowing toward? It seems to me, in clear air, you can get pretty close to the upwind, backside part of the storm and not be in any specific danger from turbulence or hail, particularly if you're high enough to be out of the RFD flank of a rotating cell. However even 30 or up to 50 miles downwind at high altitude in a strong storm, are where hailstones like to spit out.
 
How much truth is there that hail is being blown many miles from thunder storms? Seems kinda like an urban myth. Any time I have encountered hail on the surface, it has always been accompanied by large rain shafts. I would love to avoid storms by 50 miles but in the terminal area that isn't even remotely close to practical. Also not sure what altitude has to do with it, lets look at it logically, if hail is being ejected 50 miles away up high, it falls to the surface at that distance too...
 
gotWXdagain said:
I assume by downwind side you mean the side the storm is blowing toward? It seems to me, in clear air, you can get pretty close to the upwind, backside part of the storm and not be in any specific danger from turbulence or hail, particularly if you're high enough to be out of the RFD flank of a rotating cell. However even 30 or up to 50 miles downwind at high altitude in a strong storm, are where hailstones like to spit out.
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Yes. Which is why I didn't understand it. I was seriously questioning my logic.
 
wheelsup said:
How much truth is there that hail is being blown many miles from thunder storms? Seems kinda like an urban myth. Any time I have encountered hail on the surface, it has always been accompanied by large rain shafts. I would love to avoid storms by 50 miles but in the terminal area that isn't even remotely close to practical. Also not sure what altitude has to do with it, lets look at it logically, if hail is being ejected 50 miles away up high, it falls to the surface at that distance too...
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At the surface you'd most likely be experiencing nothing more than "anvil drizzle" as the hailstones fall through the freezing level and melt.
 
wheelsup said:
How much truth is there that hail is being blown many miles from thunder storms? Seems kinda like an urban myth. Any time I have encountered hail on the surface, it has always been accompanied by large rain shafts. I would love to avoid storms by 50 miles but in the terminal area that isn't even remotely close to practical. Also not sure what altitude has to do with it, lets look at it logically, if hail is being ejected 50 miles away up high, it falls to the surface at that distance too...
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I either read it or someone told me that staying a mile away from the storm for every knot of wind aloft should keep you in the clear. Seems excessive and ridiculous to figure out, not to mention that it changes.

Haven't been hit with anything staying 20 miles away yet though.
 
deadstick said:
Just think, if it's 1" hail at the surface, imagine what it started out at. If I absolutely, positively have to go on the front side, I get the heck away from it before cutting across its path.
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We know that melting occurs-and therefore the hailstone size gets smaller- as a result of friction and as a result of passing through warm air, but exactly how hailstones are formed is still up for debate. Recently the rising-falling-rising hypothesis has come under scrutiny. That being said, of the cantaloupe-sized hailstone that fell in South Dakota a few years back, I would not have wanted to encounter it at altitude.
 
bike21 said:
Dayum. Ran around some nasty weather last night as well. Dude on our (crappy) forums said he was running around the same storm system as the DL bird last night and everyone was getting fooled by overhangs that weren't painting a thing and lots of high cirrus obscuring the bad stuff. Gotta love those days.
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Basically describes my whole past week of flying.
 
gotWXdagain said:
We know that melting occurs-and therefore the hailstone size gets smaller- as a result of friction and as a result of passing through warm air, but exactly how hailstones are formed is still up for debate. Recently the rising-falling-rising hypothesis has come under scrutiny. That being said, of the cantaloupe-sized hailstone that fell in South Dakota a few years back, I would not have wanted to encounter it at altitude.
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Basically would've been flying through solid clouds, no?
 
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