Are you pros being paid appropriately?

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Captains at my gig make that, so perhaps?

The soft pay is what sets us ahead of our peers flying the same bird. (Mostly, in some cases... Others not so much)
 
Looking at 1922 doesn't give you the best picture of how far pilot pay has fallen. Pilot pay didn't really start to go up until after Decision 83. When the bigger, heavier, and faster airplanes showed up in the 40s and 50s after Decision 83's pay formula was codified, pilot pay skyrocketed. And then a couple of decades of pattern bargaining with the protection of a regulated industry just made it better and better. If you take the peak 1970s era pay rates and adjust them for inflation, you find that pilots were making the equivalent of well over $500k then.
 
Nark said:
Captains at my gig make that, so perhaps?

The soft pay is what sets us ahead of our peers flying the same bird. (Mostly, in some cases... Others not so much)
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When you 121 guys talk about softpay, I assume that's per diem, etc? I don't need exact numbers, but for a first year FO, is that going to help ease the burden of first year pay, or not so much? Is there a rough percentage on top of your take home you can normally calculate for softpay?
 
Not even close to enough. Sure, anyone will say that, but I can say for certain that I never really complained too much about pay at my fractional job. Sure I would have loved more money, but I could actually live comfortably, and the amount of time/effort I put into the job I felt I was compensated at least fairly.

At the airlines, not even close. First year pay is an absolute joke, and honestly I don't even understand how it's legal. It would ALMOST be okay (really it wouldn't though) if you could make up the lost income on year 2+, but you don't. Then you throw in commutes, or scheduling issues, and the compensation is not even close to worth it on the regional level.

ozziecat35 said:
When you 121 guys talk about softpay, I assume that's per diem, etc? I don't need exact numbers, but for a first year FO, is that going to help ease the burden of first year pay, or not so much? Is there a rough percentage on top of your take home you can normally calculate for softpay?
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Not just per diem. Soft pay is basically the pay you get when you're not flying the airplane (Deadheads, training etc) so for example at my company if you're on the CRJ, all of our soft pay is at the CRJ200 rate, even if you're currently flying a CRJ700/900 trip.

I made $22,280 first year. No, soft pay does not help ease the burden.
 
Turbolag said:
If you don't mind me being nosey...... Did you manage ok with that amount for the year? What was your lifestyle like ?

Just curious.
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Not at all. I'm not shy to post that amount because I want those who are getting into the career to know exactly what they'll be dealing with.

I managed because I prepared myself financially for about a year prior to coming to a regional. I was flying corporate before making the jump to 121, and I was able to build up my savings because I knew it would be a rough couple years going to the airlines. I went into year 1 with no real debt. Student loans/training loans pretty much were paid off, no credit card debt and I own all my vehicles outright. I lived somewhat comfortably because of this. I didn't worry about bills because I knew I had savings to fall back on if I needed to (and I only needed to reach into savings a couple times). I made no random big purchases, meaning no "Oooo look shiny cool thing that I want but don't absolutely need".

I also added some expenses though. Commuting cost me almost $300/mo when you factor in crashpad, train/bus fare.

Lifestyle overall, pretty boring while also hectic because of the commute.

Honestly, I don't know how others go into year 1 pay with massive student loans, rent etc because you simply don't bring home enough to cover everything. I really think you need to have a financial plan before you go into the regionals, and I think that's pretty sad, because this is our career. Strapping into your first airliner should be the "I finally made it!" part of the career, not "How can I afford to do this?" part.
 
What boggles me is that unions allow these absurd first year pay rates. The entire point of collective bargaining is to eliminate the whipsaw. That is, to align the collective interests of all of the proles so as to compete with the collective interests of the owners of the means of production. But damned if we don't just fall all over ourselves to Balkanize at the drop of a hat. Give away the little airplanes, I don't want to fly them! Pay first year dudes slave wages, more for me! Etc etc.

And sure, someone will no doubt come along and say "look, bub, I'm not a charity...I gotta look out for #1". And fair enough. But again, the entire point of collective bargaining is that your rational self-interest is aligned with that of the rest of the group. Otherwise, it doesn't work for anyone. Sadly, this not-particularly-challenging concept seems to elude a large number of our sort-of-college-educated sky-blue/dark-cream collared brethern, and I fear ever shall it be so.

Or if you prefer, in the immortal words of Dark Helmet: "Evil will always triumph over Good, because Good is dumb."
 
Mark815 said:
Not at all. I'm not shy to post that amount because I want those who are getting into the career to know exactly what they'll be dealing with.

I managed because I prepared myself financially for about a year prior to coming to a regional. I was flying corporate before making the jump to 121, and I was able to build up my savings because I knew it would be a rough couple years going to the airlines. I went into year 1 with no real debt. Student loans/training loans pretty much were paid off, no credit card debt and I own all my vehicles outright. I lived somewhat comfortably because of this. I didn't worry about bills because I knew I had savings to fall back on if I needed to (and I only needed to reach into savings a couple times). I made no random big purchases, meaning no "Oooo look shiny cool thing that I want but don't absolutely need".

I also added some expenses though. Commuting cost me almost $300/mo when you factor in crashpad, train/bus fare.

Lifestyle overall, pretty boring while also hectic because of the commute.

Honestly, I don't know how others go into year 1 pay with massive student loans, rent etc because you simply don't bring home enough to cover everything. I really think you need to have a financial plan before you go into the regionals, and I think that's pretty sad, because this is our career. Strapping into your first airliner should be the "I finally made it!" part of the career, not "How can I afford to do this?" part.
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mshunter said:
I did. And I was paying almost $900 in child support. You just learn to live within your means. My means were a lot of Ramen noodles and prision burritos.
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Thanks for sharing your experieinces guys. I enjoy reading up on this stuff.
 
Boris Badenov said:
What boggles me is that unions allow these absurd first year pay rates. The entire point of collective bargaining is to eliminate the whipsaw. That is, to align the collective interests of all of the proles so as to compete with the collective interests of the owners of the means of production. But damned if we don't just fall all over ourselves to Balkanize at the drop of a hat. Give away the little airplanes, I don't want to fly them! Pay first year dudes slave wages, more for me! Etc etc.

And sure, someone will no doubt come along and say "look, bub, I'm not a charity...I gotta look out for #1". And fair enough. But again, the entire point of collective bargaining is that your rational self-interest is aligned with that of the rest of the group. Otherwise, it doesn't work for anyone. Sadly, this not-particularly-challenging concept seems to elude a large number of our sort-of-college-educated sky-blue/dark-cream collared brethern, and I fear ever shall it be so.

Or if you prefer, in the immortal words of Dark Helmet: "Evil will always triumph over Good, because Good is dumb."
Click to expand...

But, but, but....quick upgrade. I could care less what seat I sit in. How much does it pay, and how much time off do I get.
 
First year pay sucks for most regional jobs and so does every year after that until you get to the Captain pay. I sometimes flirt with going back to 121 but the lack of benefits and pay scares me off again. I think the only way I could make it work would be to go to a big cargo carrier.
 
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