ALPA and medical reform

Seggy said:
Yeah, you are missing a lot of facts right there.
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So explain it to us. I can say the same thing. You're missing a lot of facts about GA you don't even know about. See how both is our opinion and not fact. Like if I say most people who get denied a third class have a unicorn horn. Same as you saying most people who get a third class don't have regular physicals. With out data both are opinions.

But just respond with "you're wrong" since that's your MO.
 
PositionAndHold said:
So explain it to us. I can say the same thing. You're missing a lot of facts about GA you don't even know about. See how both is our opinion and not fact. Like if I say most people who get denied a third class have a unicorn horn. Same as you saying most people who get a third class don't have regular physicals. With out data both are opinions.

But just respond with "you're wrong" since that's your MO.
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I have done more than just a few 'volunteer drives' with ALPA.

One of the hats I wear is that of the ALPA Pilot Assistance Vice Chair. The ALPA Aeromedical Committee is under that structure. I need to have facts to properly volunteer in that role and can't rely on whim opinions.

I have the facts here. You (and others) have wrong opinions.
 
Seggy said:
I have done more than just a few 'volunteer drives' with ALPA.

One of the hats I wear is that of the ALPA Pilot Assistance Vice Chair. The ALPA Aeromedical Committee is under that structure. I need to have facts to properly volunteer in that role and can't rely on whim opinions.

I have the facts here. You (and others) have wrong opinions.
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Could you share some of those facts? I'm certainly interested to know what facts drove ALPA national to take the stance that they have.
 
Seggy said:
I have done more than just a few 'volunteer drives' with ALPA.

One of the hats I wear is that of the ALPA Pilot Assistance Vice Chair. The ALPA Aeromedical Committee is under that structure. So, I can't have opinions. I need to have facts to properly volunteer in that role.

I have the facts here. You (and others) have wrong opinions.
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Awesome. I'm proud of your accomplishments. So, instead of telling us are opinions are wrong. Use your vast knowledge and facts, based on your numerous positions to convince us we're wrong. We're not talking about a top secret ALPA sub committee. Use your facts to create a counter point. That's how it works. You don't go to court and scream they're wrong louder than the other party and win. You use a fact based argument and prove your case. I'm simply asking you to prove your case. I've admitted over and over, based on my experiences this is the way I see this issue. You continually say "your wrong" without providing an actual fact or study but still state I'm/we're wrong. At this point both of us screaming "you're wrong" carries the same weight. Simply state, this is my opinion or this is the way I feel and we have no problem. To continually tell other members they're wrong without providing facts is disingenuous and you seem to do it continuously.
 
Seggy said:
I have stated facts.

You and others are ignoring them and pontificating wrongly on your opinions.
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Where? Where are your "facts"? You provided one post with links to studies about detecting medical issues. No where did you state facts when it comes to death/accident rates involving GA and 121. No where.
 
PositionAndHold said:
Where? Where are your "facts"? You provided one post with links to studies about detecting medical issues. No where did you state facts when it comes to death/accident rates involving GA and 121. No where.
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Well....to begin....post 53.

Also, the fact is, Part 121 is much safer than GA. 121 also has a higher medical standard. So are you going to make an argument that a higher medical standard is a reason for a safer accident rate?
 
Seggy said:
Well....to begin....post 53.

Also, the fact is, Part 121 is much safer than GA. 121 also has a higher medical standard. So are you going to make an argument that a higher medical standard is a reason for a safer accident rate?
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Uhhh in post #53 you give your opinions about ALPA, anti depressants and sleep apnea. No where do you state a fact. You talk about how you think it went but that's it. I'm not letting this go. You and @ATN_Pilot continually speak about how things are, as it is a fact. It's not, it's your opinion. You both need to learn the difference. Studies, research, and papers lend themselves to being factual, yet you won't quote any of those. You just say " you're wrong" and that's it. If you have specialized experiences I would love to hear about them. However just because you were close to a particular subject doesn't make it factual. It makes it your opinion. There are multiple people on this site that have experiences similar to yours. Their opinions based on those experiences doesn't make it fact, it makes it thier experiences. This site, to me is more about people's experiences than any thing. That's what makes it great. You both love to talk about how correct you are without considering other people's experiences/knowledge. When you do this you lose credibility.
 
"You and @ATN_Pilot continually speak about how things are, as it is a fact. It's not, it's your opinion. "

Oh, I wondered why I was missing half the conversation.

For the sake of ALPA, I just hope neither of the Jetcareers ALPA apologists on here are in any sort of union leadership position. It makes me cringe the stuff they used to say here while being a part of "ALPA management". The way they come across does way more harm than good. Embarrassing....
 
Derg said:
On the topic of national, I'm heavily curious on what's being said in the backchannels of what happened at Delta the last month. The natives are restless. Very.
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My take is they really don't care. They thought it was going to pass with flying colors (why I have no idea though) and now are kind of figuring, y'all made your bed and now you sleep in it. I think FedEx and the spinning up of United negotiations are probably way more of a priority. I'd guess (my opinion only) that they are waiting for you guys to clean house and solve your problems.
 
Seggy said:
The AME is another layer to see if there is an issue. Your primary care doctor may not give you a color blind test, but an AME will. That could lead to a discovery of night vision problems. Also, you are assuming that everyone has a primary care doctor. A lot of folks don't. The first time they find out they have high blood pressure is when they are at their AME. Is it that hard to understand?
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Not at all. I'm still saying that if you are relying on an AME as your primary it's too bad but that's your choice.

Wait. "Lot of folks don't"? Based on this discussion, I'm surprised at your comment. I thought that, for safety reasons of course, you would require everyone to have the additional (I'd say primary) layer of a primary care physician. There should be a regulation forcing you to have a primary care physician, right?

Thanks to everyone for all the comments. Very helpful in understanding the issue and people's reactions to it.

I did notice, however, the shortage of responses on the other point, that it seems to me ALPA would have more important things to concern itself with on behalf of career pilots. Tells me the accuracy of my "wedge issue impotence" observation.
 
PositionAndHold said:
So @ATN_Pilot what is your opinion on the incidents I mention. I didn't mention deaths, I mentioned crashes or hull loses.
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What about them? They aren't relevant to this conversation. Regardless, ALPA is a party to every accident investigation and takes a leadership role in making things safer. Again, ALPA is the largest non-governmental safety organization in the world.

PositionAndHold said:
So explain it to us. I can say the same thing. You're missing a lot of facts about GA you don't even know about.
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He's flown GA. Have you ever flown 121 or been in an ALPA national leadership position? If anyone is missing the other's perspective here, it's not Seggy.

PositionAndHold said:
Uhhh in post #53 you give your opinions about ALPA, anti depressants and sleep apnea. No where do you state a fact. You talk about how you think it went but that's it. I'm not letting this go. You and @ATN_Pilot continually speak about how things are, as it is a fact. It's not, it's your opinion. You both need to learn the difference. Studies, research, and papers lend themselves to being factual, yet you won't quote any of those.
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You don't seem to understand that the burden of proof is on you. We aren't the ones who want to remove a level of safety. You are. So you're the one who has to prove that it's at least as safe as the current system, if not safer, in order to justify the change.

MidlifeFlyer said:
I did notice, however, the shortage of responses on the other point, that it seems to me ALPA would have more important things to concern itself with on behalf of career pilots. Tells me the accuracy of my "wedge issue impotence" observation.
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I did respond to this. Telling a staffer to write a quick letter to Congress is not difficult, and does not divert ALPA's attention from the bigger issues. However, ALPA does have to take a position, because this is a safety issue, and ALPA is and always has been the conscience of the industry.
 
Seggy said:
That argument doesn't hold up. In the sport pilot category, you can't fly at night. There are a lot of medical conditions that you wouldn't have to worry about during the day, but at night, they become a huge issue. So, the data is skewed.
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So, heart attacks, high blood pressure and the like are only issues after the sun goes down? I mean, sounds legit. Sure, I buy it.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You don't seem to understand that the burden of proof is on you. We aren't the ones who want to remove a level of safety. You are. So you're the one who has to prove that it's at least as safe as the current system, if not safer, in order to justify the change.
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No, that's not how it works. The burden of proof is on both sides. The side trying to justify the change, and the side opposed to it. Otherwise, ALPA would be silent.

But @PositionAndHold is right. "Your wrong" and "what does it matter" are not valid arguments. Neither is "the data is skewed" unless you have opposing data. Which I'm guessing, there isn't any.
 
mshunter said:
So, heart attacks, high blood pressure and the like are only issues after the sun goes down? I mean, sounds legit. Sure, I buy it.
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I have been over this.

There are a lot of vision issues that aren't a problem during the day time but can be at night.
 
mshunter said:
Yup. Being color blind must suck. But plenty of guys are still flying around, at night, on SODA's. So I guess that means, "you're wrong."
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You are making zero sense.

How would a pilot know they have an issue at night if not tested for it at their medical? It could be missed by a primary care visit.
 
Seggy said:
You are making zero sense.

How would a pilot know they have an issue at night if not tested for it at their medical? It could be missed by a primary care visit.
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No, you're right. Most people have no clue they are color blind. Which is why when I was a CFI, it was a very common question.

"Is me being color blind going to be a problem?"

"Well, not exactly. There are alternative tests to determine that."

And to wit, 4.5% of the world is color blind. A minutia. Do you want to continue the circle jerk? Or just admit, "you're wrong."
 
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