ATP flight school? Good or bad?

W

wannabejetpilot

Member
Hello. I want to go into the airlines when I get out of college. I am in my first year of college now working on my PPL. I heard about ATP flight school. I read on their website and how you can fast track through the program to go into the airlines. I saw this as too good to be true that you can get all ratings in less than a year, so I am working on my ppl now so that I can understand things better when I am being "rushed" to learn everything. I want to become an airline pilot, or corporate jet pilot at a younger age, but I found out that people are usually in their 40's when they are finally in. I know the military pilot route is faster and more assuring. I have looked into the military but the military isn't what I am interested in. I believe ATP flight school is accredited, but, is it risky to do it since airline employers will see that I have taken the "fast route" to fly for them. I want to go into the majors like southwest, jet blue, delta, etc but I don't really want to take so long. Getting a ppl all the way through ATP is a long route, and when I graduate, I still won't have enough hours so I would fly with the regionals for 5-10 years with very little pay until I have obtained enough hours. Should I just go the long route or go into ATP school? What are some things I would have to watch out and be cautious for if I decide to go to ATP school?
 
This is a purely anecdotal viewpoint, so take this for what its worth, as it is probably just my horrible luck, but every single ATP product I've met and flown with has had poor stick and rudder skills, poor SA, and poor ADM skills. Ultimately a trained monkey is what I refer to them as. I've never been through the ATP program, but from what I've heard and thus seen, it adds up in my little head.
 
wannabejetpilot said:
Hello. I want to go into the airlines when I get out of college. I am in my first year of college now working on my PPL. I heard about ATP flight school. I read on their website and how you can fast track through the program to go into the airlines. I saw this as too good to be true that you can get all ratings in less than a year, so I am working on my ppl now so that I can understand things better when I am being "rushed" to learn everything. I want to become an airline pilot, or corporate jet pilot at a younger age, but I found out that people are usually in their 40's when they are finally in. I know the military pilot route is faster and more assuring. I have looked into the military but the military isn't what I am interested in. I believe ATP flight school is accredited, but, is it risky to do it since airline employers will see that I have taken the "fast route" to fly for them. I want to go into the majors like southwest, jet blue, delta, etc but I don't really want to take so long. Getting a ppl all the way through ATP is a long route, and when I graduate, I still won't have enough hours so I would fly with the regionals for 5-10 years with very little pay until I have obtained enough hours. Should I just go the long route or go into ATP school? What are some things I would have to watch out and be cautious for if I decide to go to ATP school?
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There's no such thing as the "fast" route. Once you get your ratings, where ever you get them, you will still need to have 1500 hours before you can get hired by any airline. So count on spending at least a couple of years after flight school working as flight instructor and/or Part 135 pilot before you will even be able to apply to a regional airline. Then you can probably expect to spend a least a couple more years (probably longer) as a First Officer before you can upgrade to Captain. Then, another couple of years before you have the 1000 hours of pilot in command of a turbine powered airplane that the majors have historically required.

So get "fast" out of your head. This road you're starting down is probably upwards of a decade long; longer if you elect not to train while in college. There are exceptions of course, but I wouldn't base a career plan around that.

I can't speak to the quality of ATP's program, but you will need to meet the criteria set forth in the Practical Test Standards, regardless of where you train. Knowing that, do some comparison shopping. Figure out what it would cost at the local FBO vs. ATP,

Keep in mind that you can pay as you go at an FBO. Like I said, I can't speak to the quality of ATP, but I can do know what it's like to be debt free.
 
Lots of threads on this.

"accredited". They're part 61 with a 141 program for people who fail check rides. They're not a university, so the accreditation is not worth anything. If anything, ATP has a negative stigma in the industry. It was not until I got training elsewhere after private-commercial multi at ATP that I learned stick and rudder, proper phraseology, how to teach lesson plans, etc.

It's expensive. There are cheaper ways to do it.
It's, on average, poor instruction. There are exceptions, but don't plan for an exception. Plan for a 19 year old product of the program sitting next to you building time.
It's not flexible. You have no choice in instructors.
It's a brutal schedule. You fly when they say you fly, or cough up the extra dough for "self paced"
It's pay up front. Once you realize the mistake you made, it's too late.
It's a guaranteed job that pays like garbage (minimum wage, anyone?) and they will kick you to the curb the first chance they get when you make mistakes to make room for more guaranteed instructors.
 
wannabejetpilot said:
I want to go into the majors like southwest, jet blue, delta, etc but I don't really want to take so long.
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Thousands of experienced pilot's with years of experience and advanced degrees have spent years and years looking for faster paths to the job they really want. As far as I know, excluding networking/nepotism nobody has discovered a shortcut. I'd plan on paying your dues like everybody else has, and enjoy it, it's not as bad as advertised.

I would find an instructor who cares about your learning and work with them, be it part 61, 141, ATP etc and go that route. I've seen great instructors get "meh" students a long ways, just as I've seen "meh" instructors fail with great students.
 
wannabejetpilot said:
Hello. I want to go into the airlines when I get out of college. I am in my first year of college now working on my PPL. I heard about ATP flight school. I read on their website and how you can fast track through the program to go into the airlines. I saw this as too good to be true that you can get all ratings in less than a year, so I am working on my ppl now so that I can understand things better when I am being "rushed" to learn everything. I want to become an airline pilot, or corporate jet pilot at a younger age, but I found out that people are usually in their 40's when they are finally in. I know the military pilot route is faster and more assuring. I have looked into the military but the military isn't what I am interested in. I believe ATP flight school is accredited, but, is it risky to do it since airline employers will see that I have taken the "fast route" to fly for them. I want to go into the majors like southwest, jet blue, delta, etc but I don't really want to take so long. Getting a ppl all the way through ATP is a long route, and when I graduate, I still won't have enough hours so I would fly with the regionals for 5-10 years with very little pay until I have obtained enough hours. Should I just go the long route or go into ATP school? What are some things I would have to watch out and be cautious for if I decide to go to ATP school?
Click to expand...

The ATP school still doesn't change that you need 1,500 hrs. You'll get hired at a regional then with 1,500 hours and then getting hired at the major will be all about luck, contacts/references, job fairs, or a combination of these. Not sure what "shortcut" you are implying, there really isn't a shortcut left ever since the ATP rule was implemented in 2013.
 
Sounds like someone at ATP Flight School has planted some notion in your head where you could skip or shorten your flying at a regional by enrolling for in their program. You still have to get from 225tt (ATP uses the Frasca for the comm requirements) to 1500.

ATP is not accredited. The normal program is a part 61, just like any FBO. Most people do not finish that program as advertised, it can become an incredibly expensive nightmare. This is coming from someone who finished the program as described. At the 2009-2010 pricing you could almost make a case for the place (and students were hard to come by so they'd be pretty understanding). Flash to 2015 and students are paying 40% more for less time, go ahead and add in the fact that nobody cares about 100+ multi anymore and there's really no advantage whatsoever. I could write a book on all the other factors at play here.
 
I'm going to keep this as simple as possible...

1. Graduate college.
2. While accomplishing #1, give rides to the sorority chicks. According to them if you can land a 152 with them in it, you can shoot an approach in a 747 to mins. It's all the same to them.
3. Have fun while accomplishing #1 and #2.
4. Sleep in but don't forget to do some reading.
5. Aviation will always be here and need people. Fast tracking is not always the answer. Learn stick and rudder off the start and no one can ever take that away from you.
6. Just when you think things suck, something falls into place.
7. Have fun.
8. Don't get yourself 20 grand in debt over this. Pace yourself and start back at #5.
9. If #1-8 fails, go to your local pilot shop and buy a pilot shirt and some stripes. Girls wont know the difference.

Seriously though, pace yourself. There's no sense in looking at 5 ratings/100 grand down the road. Take things/ratings one step/check ride at a time and as you finish one, go to the other. Don't feel you have to rush. Learn the basics. Just because you did your instrument check ride at the minimum hours doesn't mean you're ready to fly every day all day approaches to minimums and not mess something up. Please learn from a lot of people before you get scammed into something. Although I was being sarcastic on my list, I really mean finishing college before anything. That doesn't mean you can't knock out a rating here or there at the same time. But let your first priority be school. You have a huge jump start on majority of people. There will always be that one person who trumps everyone else, but you settle that score by saying you had more fun then he did.

Keep rocking.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The ATP school still doesn't change that you need 1,500 hrs. You'll get hired at a regional then with 1,500 hours and then getting hired at the major will be all about luck, contacts/references, job fairs, or a combination of these. Not sure what "shortcut" you are implying, there really isn't a shortcut left ever since the ATP rule was implemented in 2013.
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Ok, I don't know any pilots. How/where or what things should I do or what programs should I get involved with to meet an airline pilot?
 
wannabejetpilot said:
Ok, I don't know any pilots. How/where or what things should I do or what programs should I get involved with to meet an airline pilot?
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Well you started here at the right place. :)

What I meant was networking and that can happen anywhere, but will probably pick up more once you're at a regional and you fly with CAs who are then subsequently leaving to a major. Keep in touch with the good ones.
 
wannabejetpilot said:
Ok, I don't know any pilots. How/where or what things should I do or what programs should I get involved with to meet an airline pilot?
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You can work as a line guy at the local FBO to meet pilots, that's what I did during my training. I was the person (that's my thread linked at the top) asking this exact question just over a year ago, now I'm a CFI flying everyday. Once I realized I could get my ratings just as quick at a mom and pop shop I went there and saved $25k. It took 359 days to go from first flight to CFI. A little longer than what ATP advertises, but I know I enjoyed it more at the mom and pop shop. Taking friends and family flying was an absolute blast. Any questions you can pm or ask here, there is a ton of experience on this forum.
 
Been there, done that. Still paying Ms. Sallie. I was young, excited, and to put it frankly, dumb. Yeah I'm an airline pilot now, but I think I could have saved a lot of money and time away from home if I would have approached it differently. Find a good flight school close to home, do it privately, and get a degree while you're instructing or towing banners or flying skydivers.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Well you started here at the right place. :)

What I meant was networking and that can happen anywhere, but will probably pick up more once you're at a regional and you fly with CAs who are then subsequently leaving to a major. Keep in touch with the good ones.
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While this is true, networking starts from day one and continues throughout your entire career. Never turn down an opportunity to meet somebody and build a network... ask me sometime how I know.

To the original poster, if you are working on your PPL, see if your local airport has an EAA chapter. There is often a wealth of aviation experience at these chapters and they often do pancake breakfasts or other events monthly that are open to anybody. It's a great way to start making friends and finding mentors in the community.
 
vdsteelman said:
Been there, done that. Still paying Ms. Sallie. I was young, excited, and to put it frankly, dumb. Yeah I'm an airline pilot now, but I think I could have saved a lot of money and time away from home if I would have approached it differently. Find a good flight school close to home, do it privately, and get a degree while you're instructing or towing banners or flying skydivers.
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I learned to fly at a State College that also had a flight school (Oklahoma State University/Tulsa COmmunity COllege). Took actually classes from an actual college, not BS English from Spartan. It was extremely affordable to learn to fly there.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
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Well you started here at the right place. :)

What I meant was networking and that can happen anywhere, but will probably pick up more once you're at a regional and you fly with CAs who are then subsequently leaving to a major. Keep in touch with the good ones.
Click to expand...

Bingo

You are actually networking right now. Let us know what part of the country you are in and there is most likely a JC member near there. Better yet, probably a JC member that is a CFI.

If you love flying, keep showing up here. It is a great group of aviation enthusiasts and professionals.
 
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