Delta TA

Derg said:
Ehh, just reiterating that were a diverse flock of opinions and we all represent ourselves.
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Not I. I represent...
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Well @Trip7 if "Puppy" said it that changes everything!

In all seriousness, I know we want the same things just disagree on how to get there.

As for the 100 seaters, fine let them cancel the order. My opinion is that parts of this deal represent a greater threat to my advancement than a token jet order advances it. But the jets are coming.
 
Trip7 said:
*My opinion*

They are the best 190 rates in the world. 2ndly, they are fantastic compared to C2012 rates. Lastly, it's the first RJ to return to mainline. Let's get the plane on property and in 3 years we can enter that battle. This contract is up 2 years before A's current deal is up.
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See, that's the problem. No one can look past the manufacturer. Who cares who makes the plane? The pay rates should be based on the capacity. If you buy into the company line of "best paid E190 pilots in the world" you are going to lose in the long run. How do I know? I've been hearing that line from my own company since I got here.

Look at the historical pay rates for DC9s with comparable seats, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
See, that's the problem. No one can look past the manufacturer. Who cares who makes the plane? The pay rates should be based on the capacity. If you buy into the company line of "best paid E190 pilots in the world" you are going to lose in the long run. How do I know? I've been hearing that line from my own company since I got here.

Look at the historical pay rates for DC9s with comparable seats, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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The NMB will look at your competition's rates, not "history".

We can keep chasing ghosts of the past or come back to reality and realize it's not what you think you deserve, it's what you can negotiate.
 
Derg said:
One of the major challenges we're having are the factions.

  • Some of the "Yes" votes were "It's a great deal'
  • Some of the "Yes" votes were "Ungh.. ehhh… let the membership ratification have it's way with it"
  • Some of the "No" votes were "It's a bad deal"
  • Some of the "No" votes were "This isn't deserving to move forward in the MEMRAT process".

The MEC chair says "No sell job" but then more or less says it's a good deal in support of the NC.

My contacts on the NC committee are split.

The P2P's are split between saying it's a great deal and selling while others are just getting the details out dispassionately. Word on the street is that some have quit.

The last couple weeks have divided the pilot group, the social media campaign is wrecked, conflicting reports from various councils and I haven't seen this level of frustration and anger since the bankruptcy days.

Again, good leadership says to set the parking brake, assess, re-assess and expand the team, just like we would when we get an ECAM message.

We have an ECAM message. Believe it.
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Sounds amazingly familiar to a regional's JCBA attempt.
 
Trip7 said:
The NMB will look at your competition's rates, not "history".

We can keep chasing ghosts of the past or come back to reality and realize it's not what you think you deserve, it's what you can negotiate.
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Sure, it is what you can negotiate, but the negotiators need to go in with the attitude that it isn't an RJ, but a mainline aircraft with 100 seats, and start from there. It is the company's job to try the opposite, not yours.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Sure, it is what you can negotiate, but the negotiators need to go in with the attitude that it isn't an RJ, but a mainline aircraft with 100 seats, and start from there. It is the company's job to try the opposite, not yours.
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I'm sure they went there with the mindset that it's a E190 coming on property, we are going to aim for 717 rates, and if not, industry leading rates. I have not doubt our NC asked for 717 rates. I have a feeling management looked at AA rates then jetBlue rates and chuckled.
 
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