Delta TA

Cptnchia said:
The JV concessions and VA carve out will severely limit that WB growth. Whether top end or bottom end, scope concessions are completely unacceptable. What good are big pay rates when you don't need that many pilots or planes. You need to look past the pay.
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Do you have any numbers/facts that back that up as ALPA's charts disagrees with your "severely" statement
 
Cptnchia said:
The JV concessions and VA carve out will severely limit that WB growth. Whether top end or bottom end, scope concessions are completely unacceptable. What good are big pay rates when you don't need that many pilots or planes. You need to look past the pay.
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I see what it says but in English can the carve out be explained?

Also what is the B fund contribution going to be? Finally, how big of a change to the sick bank?
 
HRDiva said:
Since you all are talking about PA's while waiting for the TA to be released, I have to say that most times I can't understand a single word of the announcement beyond "From the flight deck". They need to train you to deliver messages that the flying public can understand. That's the first step in engagement. Stop talking so fast, stop mumbling; slow down and enunciate!
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Also, and I'm sure you all notice this every time you have a seat in back, it's typically an issue of volume. The cabin ventilation creates a lot of white noise, and typically PAs made from the flight deck are made at the same volume as radio transmissions... but passengers aren't wearing headsets. It's not even a matter of mumbling so much as it is the fact that even the click of you keying the mic is louder than the words you're speaking. Ever sit in an airplane—even a quiet one—without a headset, and try to understand what people with headsets on are saying? That's what it's like.

I LOVE SIDEBARS. Have I ever mentioned that?

Oh well. Off to work!

-Fox
 
Seggy said:
I see what it says but in English can the carve out be explained?

Also what is the B fund contribution going to be? Finally, how big of a change to the sick bank?
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1% only. And it doesn't kick in until 2017. Sick bank amount didn't change, but the sick verification has changed for the worse.
 
Trip7 said:
Do you have any numbers/facts that back that up as ALPA's charts disagrees with your "severely" statement
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I don't believe the DALPA charts. They've been proven to be overly optimistic before. While this may be your first DALPA rodeo, I've been here before.

So vote yes. It's your perogafive. I see too many things wrong with it personally, so I guess my vote will cancel yours out. Ain't democracy great!
 
From the outside looking in...

Pay rates are good. You aren't going to get anything more than that from the NMB for sure.

JV language is a pretty brutal change, even if VA is excluded.

I work at a place that has LCA trips withheld for FOs. It sucks. Totally screws with what an FO could possibly hold.

Delta is pretty much the only place that does sick time the way they do, so I'm not fully versed on the sick time verification.

Profit share... it's getting hosed, but I'm in the camp that would much rather have it in guaranteed pay rates than in at risk compensation. That said, if you are sliding it from PS to pay, it really should be in ADDITION to the negotiated rate improvements. This looks pretty cost neutral.

100 seat aircraft growth... was going to happen anyway. Also, who knows how much will be growth and how much will be replacement flying. The 2:1 addition of "large" RJs seems fair (although crappy) related to this.

SEA... still not a hub despite it being, according to RA "a major pacific hub"! Kind of funny, but it does allow for hub to "hub" DCI flying which kind of sucks.

Vacation and training time improvements as Pay, No Credit... So you get paid 15 minutes more, but still have to work more days to cover your block for the month. Eh. Not really worth much.

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And just a general thought. I've seen a whole lot of use of the term "concessionary" being thrown around related to this TA. This isn't a concessionary deal at all. Yes, parts of it (ok, most of it) seems to be a step back, but the pay increases are a step forward (maybe not enough of one though). Negotiations are a give and take. Too many people seem to think that an NC walks into to the room and tells the company "we are getting this, this, this and this". That's not how it works at all. The company has things it wants and the union has things it wants. Based on how this TA unfolded, I'd guess the surveys and feedback showed that the top concerns of Delta pilots was to be the highest paid pilots in the industry and to protect their sick/vacation/workrules. That's what they got (mostly). Based on the rest of the language, it looks like that company's number top concerns was to allow more freedom in how they do JVs, add more flexible (read: smaller/more frequent) lift in the form of DCI jets and get a handle on the uncertainty of profit share costs. The two parties negotiated so they got what was important to them. Now, is it possible that the union misunderstand or misinterpreted pilot's top concerns? I suppose so, but having seen survey data at a few places before (not Delta) and then hearing guys talk about what THEY said was important (in public), there is very often a large disconnect between the two, very similar to how hard it is to find ANYBODY who voted yes, even when a contract passes by 60%+.
 
That verification is bull. So what is that B fund 16% now? Any excess roll into a VEBA? Also what are the details of the JV carve out? I see what it says just trying to understand it.
 
You'd think that's what the survey said, but no. The overwhelming vote was "No change to PS." Even the company's opener had no change to PS. Yet, somehow it changed. What will be interesting is how the other employee groups react to the change.
 
Cptnchia said:
You'd think that's what the survey said, but no. The overwhelming vote was "No change to PS." Even the company's opener had no change to PS. Yet, somehow it changed. What will be interesting is how the other employee groups react to the change.
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Did they release the survey data? That doesn't normally happen.
 
Seggy said:
That verification is bull. So what is that B fund 16% now? Any excess roll into a VEBA? Also what are the details of the JV carve out? I see what it says just trying to understand it.
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Yes, it's 16% right now. When you reach the max allowed, the 16% is paid in your paycheck.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I hope C-Series, over 195's!
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Your wish may come true. This is sitting at Delta HQ right now
2336946.jpg


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d-includes-plan-to-add-new-100-seat-small-jet
 
AAPalmTree said:
Assuming you're not parking widebodies with the JV changes. Devil is in the details.
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With 25 A350s, 25 A330s-900s and 10 A330-300s coming, there's no mathematical way they can park widebodies and still in compliance with even the amended C2015 JV language. Not to mention the 787s still on order
 
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