Delta TA

Seggy said:
Yeah, that is bull, BUT, that is why these are called negotiations.
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okay, so again, noob here. but are negotiations even allowed? I thought if this is approved and goes to the pilots for a vote what's in it is in it.....as in the negotiations 'occurred' before the TA came out?
 
ian said:
okay, so again, noob here. but are negotiations even allowed? I thought if this is approved and goes to the pilots for a vote what's in it is in it.....as in the negotiations 'occurred' before the TA came out?
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There was a provision that the union REALLY wanted, such as keeping their sick bank leave as is, which is a one off and unique to Delta. Management really wanted to do away with it so they might have said, 'ok, you can keep the sick bank as is, but with the hiring we are doing this is what we want in return for training schedule'.

Negotiations are a give and take. Not a I am a pilot, I want everything.
 
Seggy said:
There was a provision that the union REALLY wanted, such as keeping their sick bank leave as is, which is a one off and unique to Delta. Management really wanted to do away with it so they might have said, 'ok, you can keep the sick bank as is, but with the hiring we are doing this is what we want in return for training schedule'.

Negotiations are a give and take. Not a I am a pilot, I want everything.
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right i get that, but i guess what i'm asking is if this is voted yes by the mec to go to a pilot vote there is no changing anything in it right? so that LCA thing would be there until the next contract negotiation?
 
ian said:
right i get that, but i guess what i'm asking is if this is voted yes by the mec to go to a pilot vote there is no changing anything in it right? so that LCA thing would be there until the next contract negotiation?
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You are always negotiating with the company. Yes, if it passes the MEC and the pilots vote it in, it is as is.

However, you can always change things through a LOA or MOU before the next contract.
 
Seggy said:
Profit sharing isn't a set contractual number. I'd rather have the money set in the pay rate and not a formula. Give me the money now, not later.
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MikeD said:
Why would you guys care about the above? It's like worrying or discussing what civil war is going on in what little no-name craphole across the globe, to many, I would think.

Does this TA complete pay restroation?
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The contract exceeds C2000 pay rates, but does not restore it's buying power adjusted for inflation unless Delta posts at least a $10 billion yearly profit then we will hit that target with profit sharing.

Not a home run deal but IMO reasonable deal. We'll exceed AA rates and get profit sharing on top of that. Getting the E190/195 is also huge because not only are the pay rates good it'll add 500+ pilot jobs at a time Delta experiences Widebody growth with the A350 and A330-900 deliveries. Many would argue the plane is coming anyway but IMO not worth the risk of a prolonged 2nd negotiation. Time value of money is real.
 
Trip7 said:
Many would argue the plane is coming anyway
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We've all seen this fee-for-departure pilot shortage coming to a head, to the point of many fee for departure carries not being able to fly the schedule anymore, even on good days, as they are not keeping up with the attrition.


If a scope clause was just re-written to include a 100-seat jet, than make no mistake about it:

the jet is coming anyway.
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One side just gave away their hand in one area. That's the good news.
 
Trip7 said:
The contract exceeds C2000 pay rates, but does not restore it's buying power adjusted for inflation unless Delta posts at least a $10 billion yearly profit then we will hit that target with profit sharing.

Not a home run deal but IMO reasonable deal. We'll exceed AA rates and get profit sharing on top of that. Getting the E190/195 is also huge because not only are the pay rates good it'll add 500+ pilot jobs at a time Delta experiences Widebody growth with the A350 and A330-900 deliveries. Many would argue the plane is coming anyway but IMO not worth the risk of a prolonged 2nd negotiation. Time value of money is real.
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have they said the 190/195s are growth? I know on the other site they seem to think they are replacements and with the JV scope loss making a net loss of pilots required.
 
Trip7 said:
The contract exceeds C2000 pay rates, but does not restore it's buying power adjusted for inflation unless Delta posts at least a $10 billion yearly profit then we will hit that target with profit sharing.

Not a home run deal but IMO reasonable deal. We'll exceed AA rates and get profit sharing on top of that. Getting the E190/195 is also huge because not only are the pay rates good it'll add 500+ pilot jobs at a time Delta experiences Widebody growth with the A350 and A330-900 deliveries. Many would argue the plane is coming anyway but IMO not worth the risk of a prolonged 2nd negotiation. Time value of money is real.
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The JV concessions and VA carve out will severely limit that WB growth. Whether top end or bottom end, scope concessions are completely unacceptable. What good are big pay rates when you don't need that many pilots or planes. You need to look past the pay.
 
Cptnchia said:
The JV concessions and VA carve out will severely limit that WB growth. Whether top end or bottom end, scope concessions are completely unacceptable. What good are big pay rates when you don't need that many pilots or planes. You need to look past the pay.
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Wait, I believe I've seen this show at least once or twice before in my relatively short time of paying attention to this industry.
 
Nick said:
We've all seen this fee-for-departure pilot shortage coming to a head, to the point of many fee for departure carries not being able to fly the schedule anymore, even on good days, as they are not keeping up with the attrition.


If a scope clause was just re-written to include a 100-seat jet, than make no mistake about it:

the jet is coming anyway.
​
One side just gave away their hand in one area. That's the good news.
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If the plane is coming anyway I'd rather secure them with industry leading rates plus profit sharing than risk a 2nd negotiation or arbitration. Call me conservative but I'll take an industry leading bird in the hand....
 
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