SE ATP then add type??

Yeah, I know. I actually have a handful of foreign friends who also took the FAA ATP exam before 1 August because they just wanted to have an FAA ATP just in case. I also know a handful of people who took the ATP exam but won't have 1500 hours before the exam results expire.
 
the following numbers of ATP Knowledge Tests administered by year:

4214 in 2009
5617 in 2010
6922 in 2011
8192 in 2012
8535 in 2013
27,254 in 2014

The high number in 2014 is an anomaly and is the result of many pilots getting it done before the rules change.

Since (Aug. 1, 2014), a mere 179 ATP Multi-Engine Knowledge Tests have been administered, with 120 taken in 2015.

Awesome! Exactly what I was looking for! 120 tests in 2015 is insane, and this is why I'm so curious what it will look like by Aug 1 2016 when those 27k writtens expire. There are plenty of people who took the test who weren't anywhere near ATP mins, and there will be plenty who won't even take a ride. Even if 20k of those writtens take and pass a check ride, If there are only "hundreds" of tests per year from here on out, the industry is going to look very different.
 
Under the new regs to get your ATP-Multi you need a current written or pass the CTP course. You can get your SE, but will still need the stupid CTP course. Dumb, I know. It's all part of the new ATP regs that came out last year.
FAA is eating its young. Methinks this new ATP nonsense is really screwing the young uns coming up.
 
FAA is eating its young. Methinks this new ATP nonsense is really screwing the young uns coming up.

I absolutely agree. Basically if you don't want to shell out $5000+ for the course, you have to go work for a regional airline. It'll be really interesting to see what will happen on the 135/91 side of things in 2016. One would think if a company will type you that they'll also pay for the CTP course. Only time will tell I suppose.
 
#thanksobama
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I think we'll see organizations like FSI conducting the CTP training very soon. They would NOT miss an opportunity to make money.
 
Have been doing some more research and it appears the CTP course is only needed if you are pursuing a ME ATP. HOWEVER, if you are pursuing a SE ATP you can take a SE ATP written test that does NOT require you to take the CTP.

Soo....Just a thought but if you have already taken your ATP exam prior to the reg change and are interested in knocking out both single and multi...an option could be to complete the SE ATP written now and use that for you SE ATP. Then use the written you took before reg change for your ME.

Thoughts on this??

The reg for Multi only fwiw

14 CFR 61.53

(e) After July 31, 2014, for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an airline transport pilot certificate obtained concurrently with an airplane type rating, receive a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider certifying completion of the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in §61.156 before applying for the knowledge test required by paragraph (g) of this section;
 
Have been doing some more research and it appears the CTP course is only needed if you are pursuing a ME ATP. HOWEVER, if you are pursuing a SE ATP you can take a SE ATP written test that does NOT require you to take the CTP.

Soo....Just a thought but if you have already taken your ATP exam prior to the reg change and are interested in knocking out both single and multi...an option could be to complete the SE ATP written now and use that for you SE ATP. Then use the written you took before reg change for your ME.

Thoughts on this??
Why so complicated? If you took the ATP exam before the cutoff, use it before it expires. For both, or knock out the multi and do the single add-on practical later. Why are you suggesting taking a second knowledge test?

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the rules, the only limitations and extra requirements have to do with the acquisition of the initial multi rating on an ATP certificate.
 
Why so complicated? If you took the ATP exam before the cutoff, use it before it expires. For both, or knock out the multi and do the single add-on practical later. Why are you suggesting taking a second knowledge test?

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the rules, the only limitations and extra requirements have to do with the acquisition of the initial multi rating on an ATP certificate.

Cost. Go work for a regional for 28k and get it paid for. Or for those on the 91/135 side, either beg their employer to upgrade in time, or if that doesn't work, shell out $10000. Bad deal all around.
 
Why so complicated? If you took the ATP exam before the cutoff, use it before it expires. For both, or knock out the multi and do the single add-on practical later. Why are you suggesting taking a second knowledge test?

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the rules, the only limitations and extra requirements have to do with the acquisition of the initial multi rating on an ATP certificate.

I could be wrong here but its my understanding that you can not use one written for both. Before you could as it was a part 121 or 135 written...now its a ME or SE written..I'm under the impression you can only use one written for one checkride.

Big cluster...in my opinion this reg change is totally unnecessary.
 
Awesome! Exactly what I was looking for! 120 tests in 2015 is insane, and this is why I'm so curious what it will look like by Aug 1 2016 when those 27k writtens expire. There are plenty of people who took the test who weren't anywhere near ATP mins, and there will be plenty who won't even take a ride. Even if 20k of those writtens take and pass a check ride, If there are only "hundreds" of tests per year from here on out, the industry is going to look very different.

The reason for the low numbers is because the programs that qualify for the CTP are just ramping up. There is very few of them. Given some time (as we all know the feds work slow as molasses) these numbers will ramp up again. It's going to screw the guys who already have one, and work well for guys who don't. Wages will go down a little for jobs that require it because of the cost of training the new guy. And it will slowly transition from "Type rating required" to "Type rating AND ATP required."
 
I could be wrong here but its my understanding that you can not use one written for both. Before you could as it was a part 121 or 135 written...now its a ME or SE written..I'm under the impression you can only use one written for one checkride.

As I said, I haven't looked at it close enough to know one way or another, and I can see where the regs suggest this to be the case (see FAR 61.165), but, even in the context of the post-Colgan hysteria, it makes no sense. The restrictions are intended to limit eligibility for ME on the ATP certificate, not the SE. I can see where it makes sense to require an ATP-SE to take an additional knowledge test for the SE, but the rationale for vice versa is beyond my abilities to divine.
 
As I said, I haven't looked at it close enough to know one way or another, and I can see where the regs suggest this to be the case (see FAR 61.165), but, even in the context of the post-Colgan hysteria, it makes no sense. The restrictions are intended to limit eligibility for ME on the ATP certificate, not the SE. I can see where it makes sense to require an ATP-SE to take an additional knowledge test for the SE, but the rationale for vice versa is beyond my abilities to divine.

I think the situation he's describing is the exact situation I find myself in. I took the written about a few days before the new rules went into effect, and right now I only exclusively fly single engine aircraft (though I'm single digits shy of 500 ME). The question being, can one take the practical in a single engine aircraft, get an ATP cert with SE privileges, and then sometime later on down the line apply for a ME rating as an addition to an existing certificate and not have to take a second written? To me, the answer that would make the most sense is "yes," otherwise the FAA is treating the ATP class ratings as essentially two completely different certificates.

Do I fork over however many thousands of dollars on an ATP course in the 'nole, or see if I can get my employer to let me ride with a DPE on my next 135 annual in the Pilatipi?
 
I think the situation he's describing is the exact situation I find myself in. I took the written about a few days before the new rules went into effect, and right now I only exclusively fly single engine aircraft (though I'm single digits shy of 500 ME). The question being, can one take the practical in a single engine aircraft, get an ATP cert with SE privileges, and then sometime later on down the line apply for a ME rating as an addition to an existing certificate and not have to take a second written? To me, the answer that would make the most sense is "yes," otherwise the FAA is treating the ATP class ratings as essentially two completely different certificates.
It's actually not the FAA doing it - in the aftermath of Colgan, Congress specifically told the FAA to increase certification and training requirements for the ATP multi-engine rating (the one airline pilots have).

Be that as it may, I think what is relatively clear is that, if you get a single-engine ATP and later want to get a ME rating added to it, you will have to take both the CTP and the ATP-ME written. In that scenario, it's really the CPT and the time and expense going into that which is the big deal.

The two provisions I think are the relevant ones are:

ATP-AME to ATP-ASE: 61.165(e)
(e) Additional class rating within the same aircraft category. Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, a person applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an additional class rating who holds an airline transport certificate in the same aircraft category must --
(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of Sec. 61.153, except paragraph (g) of that section;​
[(2-4) other requirements]

(You are watching me think out loud. Scary, huh? Obviously, you can't take this to the bank or even buy a cup of coffee) 61.153 is the list of experience requirements including the certified course for the multi. Paragraph (g)in 61.153 is the requirement for the written test. This makes it sound like what I originally thought - if you already have an ATP-ME, you do not need to take the ATP-SE written for the add-on.

OTOH, it doesn't work the other way

ATP-ASE to ATP-AME: 61.165(f)
(f) Adding a multiengine class rating or airplane type rating to an airline transport pilot certificate with a single engine class rating. A person applying to add a multiengine class rating or airplane type rating to an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category single engine class rating must --
(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of Sec. 61.153;
(2) After July 31, 2014, pass a required knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of § 61.155(c), as applicable to multiengine airplanes;​
[(3-5) other requirements]​

Notice, no written test exemption here and definitely no CPT exemption.

Most people rushed to take the ATP written to avoid the CPT for the multi, not to avoid the written; might as well use it for that if you can.
 
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