SE ATP then add type??

Turbine

Turbine

Well-Known Member
Hypothetical situation: you have an ATP written completed and you take your practical in a single engine airplane. You later go and get typed on an A320.
Will the A320 type be put on your ATP cert. and you have ATP priveleges on the airbus? OR do you need to complete an approved ATP course and get authorized to do the multi atp written then do the type?
 
Finny said:
You need the multi ATP written.

Edit: you'll have SE ATP privileges and AMEL commercial A320 privileges.
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Yep. One of the applicable regs is 61.155(b):
A person who is applying for an additional aircraft type rating to be added to an airline transport pilot certificate is not required to pass a knowledge test if that person's airline transport pilot certificate lists the aircraft category and class rating that is appropriate to the type rating sought.​
 
When did the FAA come out with a SE ATP written? When I took mine back in the 80's , I believe, your two chooses were 135 or 121 and it did not matter which one you took.

Would it matter if the person in question took the ME written but passed the SE practical and his written is still current? How about if it not current? A type ride should have the same requirements an the ATP but I can see where the oral might be longer.
 
Corporate Pilot said:
When did the FAA come out with a SE ATP written? When I took mine back in the 80's , I believe, your two chooses were 135 or 121 and it did not matter which one you took.

Would it matter if the person in question took the ME written but passed the SE practical and his written is still current? How about if it not current? A type ride should have the same requirements an the ATP but I can see where the oral might be longer.
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Under the new regs to get your ATP-Multi you need a current written or pass the CTP course. You can get your SE, but will still need the stupid CTP course. Dumb, I know. It's all part of the new ATP regs that came out last year.
 
Corporate Pilot said:
When did the FAA come out with a SE ATP written? When I took mine back in the 80's , I believe, your two chooses were 135 or 121 and it did not matter which one you took.

Would it matter if the person in question took the ME written but passed the SE practical and his written is still current? How about if it not current? A type ride should have the same requirements an the ATP but I can see where the oral might be longer.
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They didn't. The written is the same for the multi and single. If you have one, there is no written required for when you get the other.
In the OPs case you would(or should) do the ATP MEL add on when you do the A320 type. No written required because you already have the ATP SEL.
 
z987k said:
They didn't. The written is the same for the multi and single. If you have one, there is no written required for when you get the other.
In the OPs case you would(or should) do the ATP MEL add on when you do the A320 type. No written required because you already have the ATP SEL.
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This is incorrect under the new rules. Add on's don't work the way they used to. If you want to add on a new rating (Hold a single and want a multi, or vice versa) you need to take a written is how I, and a circle of my former co-workers who also held only single ATPs, understood it. Reading the new regulations, it's how my current employer understands it as well.

I held an ATP single, and was planning on adding my CRJ type rating along with my multi-atp last summer, but I had doubts about if I could legally do it after July 31st. I was told I could just add it on and not worry about it, when in fact, I would have needed to take a full course and new written in order to get my Multi add on, even though I ALREADY held an ATP certificate from the FAA. 61.165(f) explains it. Confusing? It is.

§61.165 Additional aircraft category and class ratings.

(f) Adding a multiengine class rating or airplane type rating to an airline transport pilot certificate with a single engine class rating. A person applying to add a multiengine class rating or airplane type rating to an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category single engine class rating must—

(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153;

(2) After July 31, 2014, pass a required knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of §61.155(c), as applicable to multiengine airplanes;

(3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b), if applicable;

(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements of §61.159; and

(5) Pass a practical test on the areas of operation of §61.157(e)(2).
 
What clusterfudgery is this? It used to be that if you took an ATP written and it expired, there was a process "reinstate" that written without having to take a new one. Is this still the case or would one have to do the whole thing over again should their written expire?
 
gotWXdagain said:
What clusterfudgery is this? It used to be that if you took an ATP written and it expired, there was a process "reinstate" that written without having to take a new one. Is this still the case or would one have to do the whole thing over again should their written expire?
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The old days are over. If you want to take a written test it will cost you big money (few thousand) and in order to take it, you need to go through the approved course. An airline ground school does NOT count as the course.

If you hold an expired written, it is no longer valid is my understanding. Anybody who took the test by July 31 2014 has 2 years from that date to take an ATP checkride, otherwise you're SOL and need the course.

This is why I'm very curious as to what the pilot pool will look like Aug 1st of next year. Anyone who took the test last July only has a year and a few months now to take the checkride, but they'll be the last to get an ATP under the old system. From here on out anybody who gets an ATP will have to have gone through an approved course, so unless you're hired for an airline that provides the course prior to ground school, you won't be getting an ATP for cheap like the old days.

Edit: Here's the kicker, a lot of places still don't even have FAA approval after nearly a year, so I would really like to see the figures of how many people have taken the ATP written in the past 10 months.

Here's a few to give you an idea of cost (I'm finding $5k to be the average)

https://atpflightschool.com/atp/ctp/index.html

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/atp-certification-training-program-atp-ctp.html
 
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Mark815 said:
The old days are over. If you want to take a written test it will cost you big money (few thousand) and in order to take it, you need to go through the approved course. An airline ground school does NOT count as the course.

If you hold an expired written, it is no longer valid is my understanding. Anybody who took the test by July 31 2014 has 2 years from that date to take an ATP checkride, otherwise you're SOL and need the course.

This is why I'm very curious as to what the pilot pool will look like Aug 1st of next year. Anyone who took the test last July only has a year and a few months now to take the checkride, but they'll be the last to get an ATP under the old system. From here on out anybody who gets an ATP will have to have gone through an approved course, so unless you're hired for an airline that provides the course prior to ground school, you won't be getting an ATP for cheap like the old days.

Edit: Here's the kicker, a lot of places still don't even have FAA approval after nearly a year, so I would really like to see the figures of how many people have taken the ATP written in the past 10 months.

Here's a few to give you an idea of cost (I'm finding $5k to be the average)

https://atpflightschool.com/atp/ctp/index.html

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/atp-certification-training-program-atp-ctp.html
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There are a few regional airlines that are approved for the ATP course. I'm sure the rest have it in the works. Don't pay for this class if you don't have to.
 
abolton1 said:
There are a few regional airlines that are approved for the ATP course. I'm sure the rest have it in the works. Don't pay for this class if you don't have to.
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A few do, yes, but what about those who don't want to work at those particular airlines? Or don't want to work for the airlines at all? I know my airline offers it but I don't even know if there's terms or not. I could see many places requiring a training contract, similar to how some corporate operators do with type ratings. "We pay for your ATP written, you sign up for 2years" or something like it. The regionals are losing pilots in droves. I still don't totally buy the whole "pilot shortage" thing, but the retirements are hard numbers that won't change, regionals still unable to fill classes, and pilots unable to just take a test anymore in order to be qualified for an airline job like they used to be, I think the next few years are going to be very interesting.
 
I encountered a similar situation. A friend of mine took the ATP written before 1 August last year. He wanted to do the ATP SE first and later do the ATP ME when he got more money. I wanted to double check and I asked a friend of mine (DPE) and got a very long email chain routed through the FSDO and back that concluded "due the ATP ME first unless he wants to pay for the ATP CTP course."
 
I took the written on July 31 2014 and would love to see the stats of how many others did that week. People thought you could retest for higher and keep it valid longer but that's not an option.

I'll likely not get the hours by next Aug, so am interested in the CTP though like you say the pilot pool may be very different next Aug 1st. Maybe they'll come up with some temporary legislation.
 
How did sme manage to miss all the changes and discussion of the changes in the ATP rules wrought by the Colgan crash?
 
Man this whole thing seems shady. I mean, before the ATP written rules, there was the 1500 hour rule, which I believe had the effect of turning people away from the regional airlines completely (why go there and get paid less when you can go run freight for 10k more per year starting out?). Now you pretty much HAVE to go to a regional airline if you want any kind of advancement anywhere else in the industry, and there really will be no incentive for the regionals to substantially raise pay.
 
ahw01 said:
I took the written on July 31 2014 and would love to see the stats of how many others did that week. People thought you could retest for higher and keep it valid longer but that's not an option.

I'll likely not get the hours by next Aug, so am interested in the CTP though like you say the pilot pool may be very different next Aug 1st. Maybe they'll come up with some temporary legislation.
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the following numbers of ATP Knowledge Tests administered by year:

4214 in 2009
5617 in 2010
6922 in 2011
8192 in 2012
8535 in 2013
27,254 in 2014

The high number in 2014 is an anomaly and is the result of many pilots getting it done before the rules change.

Since (Aug. 1, 2014), a mere 179 ATP Multi-Engine Knowledge Tests have been administered, with 120 taken in 2015.
 
No, those pilots are already pilots, but with demand from majors and regionals, gaps in part 135, and CFIs will mean it should be a great industry to get into.
 
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