SKW finally helps hold the line (pay package results)

ATN_Pilot hit the nail on the head.
ALPA itself must represent all its member pilots and must often conduct a balancing act.
I do feel at times that national has sacrificed the interests of its members at the feet of Democratic "masters". For example, agree or disagree about "Obamacare", it was a bad deal for most airline pilots as we will see in 2016 (of course), when the "cadillac taxes" start kicking in.
On the flip side it is nice having someone at your six if management tries to do something. I once had my mamagment try to throw me under the FAA bus when they messed up. ALAP was there.
The only way the situation in the regional industry will change is if all parties- mamagment, legacy pilots, and regional management- agree on a solution. (Sorry- regional pilots will have less of a say).
I do think there is a chance that things will change in the next ten years as legacy carriers realize the competition is poaching their commodity (regional pilots). We are already seeing the "simple" solution of flow throughs.
Will something more come of it? Maybe. What will that be? Got me.
I've given up making predictions about the future of airlines.
 
Seggy said:
If it's all about the economy of scale argument then why doesn't Skywest want to merger Skywest/ASA/XJT? What about TSA/Compass and that other airline?

You do have a point to a certain extent, but there is more besides the economies of scale.
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Make no mistake: We are DONE buying airlines here. Airplanes yes, whole operations, no. "Never again."

Although if they turned around and handed the 'other' side of the fence some 175s, it would surprise me, but not as much as, say, opening a base in Anchorage.

Seggy said:
?
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We have a large number of lifers/guys with otherwise high longevity here, so that's not the cost "secret sauce" either.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You have to remember that "stopping the whipsaw" involves people losing their jobs. Who is to decide who loses their jobs and who gets to keep theirs? Who is to decide where the line is drawn? Is some mainline guy in the top job in the union going to decide that an Envoy pilot of 30 years is going to be out on the street in the name of "holding the line?" Is a group of pilots from the Envoy pilot's competitors going to decide so? How would this "leadership" take shape?

It's a much more complex subject than people want to accept. Too many people have this crazy fantasy in their head that Charlie used to espouse around here about "holding the line" and management caving. That's not reality, because this is a competitive business environment. Such a mentality worked under a regulated environment, but it doesn't work under deregulation when normal economic forces are at play.
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*Claps Furiously* *Standing Ovation*
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You have to remember that "stopping the whipsaw" involves people losing their jobs. Who is to decide who loses their jobs and who gets to keep theirs? Who is to decide where the line is drawn? Is some mainline guy in the top job in the union going to decide that an Envoy pilot of 30 years is going to be out on the street in the name of "holding the line?" Is a group of pilots from the Envoy pilot's competitors going to decide so? How would this "leadership" take shape?

It's a much more complex subject than people want to accept. Too many people have this crazy fantasy in their head that Charlie used to espouse around here about "holding the line" and management caving. That's not reality, because this is a competitive business environment. Such a mentality worked under a regulated environment, but it doesn't work under deregulation when normal economic forces are at play.
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You frequently say things that I don't like, not that they aren't true...they are, it's just that I wish they weren't. This is no different.

Do you feel that ALPA has a conflict of interest, at all? In that they can't effectively represent such a large group and on both sides of the fence?

I ask not a a rhetorical or politically driven statement, I legitimately want to know and respect your thoughts and experience.
 
Ajax said:
You frequently say things that I don't like, not that they aren't true...they are, it's just that I wish they weren't. This is no different. Do you feel that ALPA has a conflict of interest, at all? In that they can't effectively represent such a large group and on both sides of the fence? I ask not a a rhetorical or politically driven statement, I legitimately want to know and respect your thoughts and experience.
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No, not at all. The thing to remember with ALPA is that it's a collection of resources available to local pilot groups, not a director telling local pilot groups what to do. So a conflict of interest isn't possible, since national has no control to exercise over the individual pilot groups.

The real problem is self-interest. Everyone is always looking out for number one instead of the profession. And there just isn't much ALPA can do to change human nature.
 
So what is there to do to help regionals being whipsawed and raked over the coals, if a national union isn't well suited for it is anyone?
 
99driver said:
#Seggy you are absolutely right. But the first-ever rejection of a pay package (as far as I can tell) is a good start. We have a much more informed and mad pilot group than when we rejected alpa. That was before my time, but I don't know if alpa will spring for another drive.
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For my own educational purposes, when did Skywest have an ALPA vote? How many times? What was the result in terms of percentage yes/no's?

Also, for scheduled Part 121 airline operations, Skywest and Virgin are the only non-union, correct?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
For my own educational purposes, when did Skywest have an ALPA vote? How many times? What was the result in terms of percentage yes/no's?

Also, for scheduled Part 121 airline operations, Skywest and Virgin are the only non-union, correct?
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PenAir and Corvus (the artist formerly known as Era) are non-Union
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
For my own educational purposes, when did Skywest have an ALPA vote? How many times? What was the result in terms of percentage yes/no's?

Also, for scheduled Part 121 airline operations, Skywest and Virgin are the only non-union, correct?
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Not sure. It was before my time. I'd give google a try.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
If you find the answer to that, let me know.
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It is hard to not see ALPA as willing participants in the shuttling of the shiny jets.

(That is, if you know next to nothing about ALPA, and only look at deals made either at gunpoint (Endeavor) or at...knifepoint, I guess (PSA). Which is what the SAPA VP @Seggy mentioned said. I don't like him either.)
 
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