PSA Street Captains?

[CFIscare]

You know it's interesting. The beginning of this thread was pushing for people to go to PSA, which although you would have a quick upgrade, you would be starting over on reserve. You would more than likely be on the bottom of the captain list for awhile, meaning you would be on reserve for awhile. Not only that, but the majority of people who could take advantage of this opportunity would have to commute.

Lately, this thread is talking about the importance of volunteering your free time. I agree with this, but commuting to the bottom of the reserve list, especially to a regional, does not provide a lot of time home. In fact, it provides a minimum time home. In that case, I would have a hard time using my days off spending it away from family. I want to move on, but I'm not going to risk jeopardizing my marriage by never being home, especially when we have plans on expanding it beyond us two this summer. It's not fair to my wife, which I consider in all of my career decisions.

So that's where I struggle. Do I take the PSA job and start building TPIC, or do I stay here and by having a good schedule and a lot of free time, allow myself to continue to volunteer, go to career fairs, and really work my ass off to move on?

 

[derg]

Derg you have to admit that if those qualifications were presented today at Delta, you'd most likely be laughed at. Which is why it brings us back to the whole timing and luck category which IMO plays the biggest role in getting the call.

It's not 1998. It's 2015 now.

And out of the civilians in my class, I was one of two guys that had even upgraded and had far more experience than most of the military guys in class, at least time-wise. Granted I wasn't flying jets, flying MAC, dropping bombs on target (on time!) or mixing it up putting the pipper on a target during Red Flag.

If you're happy with offering the advice to not continually work on making yourself a better candidate and quasi-religiously saying it's simply providence and luck, knock yourself out. Las Vegas is luck and probability. Getting a job at an airline takes a lot more than putting a coin in a slot.

But in the meantime, I want to get good people hired at my employer because we need them. You're happy where you are and I'm proud of you for that, but don't mistake my participation in this thread as justifying the way they find candidates, I'm giving the people interested on getting onboard helpful tips and ideas on how to make that happen.

I have no need to convince you, specifically, of what I'm talking about. My goal is to reach out to that guy who wants to swing gear at SouthernJets that wants to learn about the process and get helpful tips to meet that end.

Remember, it doesn't matter what you think. They're not going to ask you how you feel. If you want to fly the jets, do what boss-man wants, or go fly jets somewhere else. It's a free country.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Yeah, I get it. But you still think flight time and flying skill are what make a good employee. Flying skill is like 20% of the job. The other stuff is less tangible on a resume, but is far more important than hours.

Airlines aren't hiring pilots. They are hiring employees who happen to fly airplanes. It's more than just numbers.

Yeah, sorry, we aren't going to ever agree on this one. Pilots are interchangeable for the most part. They have to be.

I want to move on, but I'm not going to risk jeopardizing my marriage by never being home, especially when we have plans on expanding it beyond us two this summer. It's not fair to my wife, which I consider in all of my career decisions.

So that's where I struggle. Do I take the PSA job and start building TPIC, or do I stay here and by having a good schedule and a lot of free time, allow myself to continue to volunteer, go to career fairs, and really work my ass off to move on?

Sounds like you've decided that moving on isn't your top priority. No big deal. I'm not saying that it has to be. Just don't complain when you don't get that call because you put this other stuff first.

 

[CFIscare]

Sounds like you've decided that moving on isn't your top priority. No big deal. I'm not saying that it has to be. Just don't complain when you don't get that call because you put this other stuff first.

That's not what I am saying, and I doubt you are the person to give me advice on how to juggle a career with family.

Moving on is my priority, but I'm trying to decide what's the best and most efficient way to do that, while still being responsible to my wife.

 

[derg]

That's not what I am saying, and I doubt you are the person to give me advice on how to juggle a career with family.

Moving on is my priority, but I'm trying to decide what's the best and most efficient way to do that, while still being responsible to my wife.

Run a pro/con board.

Personally, weekends and holidays off can go away tomorrow. Besides, both are heavily overrated in my opinion (shut up, @Cherokee_Cruiser, I said "in my opinion" )

Where do you want to be in 1, 5, 15 years from now? How do you get there? What's most important — to you, independently of everything else. What's most important to your family? What are you career expectations? What is your risk tolerance?

Just a handful of questions that hopefully will help you find your answers.

 

[CFIscare]

Run a pro/con board.

Personally, weekends and holidays off can go away tomorrow. Besides, both are heavily overrated in my opinion (shut up, @Cherokee_Cruiser, I said "in my opinion" )

Where do you want to be in 1, 5, 15 years from now? How do you get there? What's most important — to you, independently of everything else. What's most important to your family? What are you career expectations? What is your risk tolerance?

Just a handful of questions that hopefully will help you find your answers.

I know exactly where I want to be, I'm just struggling with how to get there. I would gladly give up my weekends and holidays, but what do I give them up to? Do I take the PSA job and start building TPIC, or do I stay here and by having a good schedule and a lot of free time, allow myself to continue to volunteer, go to career fairs, and really work my ass off to move on?

That's the question I keep asking myself.

 

[scooter2525]

@Screaming_Emu , you should be putting your app in yesterday. You don't have to make a decision till it's time to quit.

Sure it is. Quitting my last very stable and fairly lucrative job was worth the risk (and gamble) that paid off.

I'm late to this party.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Run a pro/con board.

Personally, weekends and holidays off can go away tomorrow. Besides, both are heavily overrated in my opinion (shut up, @Cherokee_Cruiser, I said "in my opinion" )

Where do you want to be in 1, 5, 15 years from now? How do you get there? What's most important — to you, independently of everything else. What's most important to your family? What are you career expectations? What is your risk tolerance?

Just a handful of questions that hopefully will help you find your answers.

Speaking of where you see yourself in 10 years, I was asked that in the interview. My answer (IMO) showed the benefits of being "un-coached" via interview prep companies.

When I was asked that question, it didn't occur to me they were asking from a company standpoint. I answered that my wife and I were married for 2 years at and we were renting an apartment at the time, and that 10 years from now, we hope to have start a family and purchase a house that we can call our home. It was an honest answer straight from the heart. The two HR ladies liked the answer but the CP remained expression-less which was my cue that I had answered a little unexpectedly and the light came on in my head (dummy! they wanna know if you gonna be here or not!). So I added that I think the Virgin brand is excellent, the airline is growing, and something different, and I'd like to be a part of it and still see myself working as a pilot in 10 years, and maybe pursue something in the flight safety department because of my engineering background and side interest.

IMO, it was just a true definition of the "just be yourself" and have stories ready about TMAT questions.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

That's not what I am saying, and I doubt you are the person to give me advice on how to juggle a career with family.

Perhaps not, but I am someone who made considerable sacrifices for a while to meet career goals, so I think I can comment on that meaningfully.

Three years ago I made the decision to leave aviation. Of course, it's not that easy. You've got to have something else to do. The family business barely made enough money at the time to support my parents, so if I was going to make that my new career, a lot had to change. So I decided that every waking moment for the next three years (my deadline because that's when I would have had to go to SWA) would be spent building the family business into something big. I didn't have a single day off for three years. I worked 18 hour days. Even when we were out at NJC last year I was spending about five hours on the computer in the morning just to keep from falling behind. I had no personal life at all. It straight up sucked for a solid three years.

But you know what? Worth it! Now I sleep in my own bed every night, I drive one mile to the office, I'm my own boss, and I make enough money to make a SWA captain jealous. Those three years of zero QOL paid off.

Sometimes short term sacrifice is worth long term gain.

 

[tbstanto]

With all due respect @ATN_Pilot , those are certainly big sacrifices, but you made them alone. You did not require your wife and kids to make those sacrifices as well. That is where the difference is. Telling your wife that your pay will be cut in half, and telling your kids that you won't be home for the next year is a completely different thing.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Yeah, sorry, we aren't going to ever agree on this one. Pilots are interchangeable for the most part. They have to be.

If all the company is looking for is a pilot group full of facsimiles, sure. But it's not. It's looking for people who:

1. Fit the culture. (Cultures exist and vary, despite your repeated denials. The culture at Blue is WAY different than at my last airline.)
2. Can be something MORE than pilots. (Check airmen, instructors, chief pilots, safety guys, recruiters, etc.)
3. Will be good employees. (Not call out sick all the damn time. Won't be ass holes. Etc.)

I'm surprised that you don't understand this, given your business experience. It seems fairly obvious.

(Btw, it seems we are back in our happy place. I was getting concerned that we were agreeing too much!)

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

With all due respect @ATN_Pilot , those are certainly big sacrifices, but you made them alone. You did not require your wife and kids to make those sacrifices as well. That is where the difference is. Telling your wife that your pay will be cut in half, and telling your kids that you won't be home for the next year is a completely different thing.

Perhaps. But that's just reason # 4,937 why I'm opposed to marriage.

 

[derg]

With all due respect @ATN_Pilot , those are certainly big sacrifices, but you made them alone. You did not require your wife and kids to make those sacrifices as well. That is where the difference is. Telling your wife that your pay will be cut in half, and telling your kids that you won't be home for the next year is a completely different thing.

Do not take this personal because, after all, I do not know you and I just naturally type sarcastic. <— see? smiley face!

But if you can't make the case that a temporary cut in pay is going to quickly recouped in career advancement and, if you're leaving for a company where the paint on the side of the jet matches the paycheck or even a better career opportunity, it might be a good idea to discuss the economic principles of "opportunity cost".

 

[B767]

Perhaps. But that's just reason # 4,937 why I'm opposed to marriage.

Because 4,936 women said no?



Drops mic

 

[derg]

If all the company is looking for is a pilot group full of facsimiles, sure. But it's not. It's looking for people who:

1. Fit the culture. (Cultures exist and vary, despite your repeated denials. The culture at Blue is WAY different than at my last airline.)
2. Can be something MORE than pilots. (Check airmen, instructors, chief pilots, safety guys, recruiters, etc.)
3. Will be good employees. (Not call out sick all the damn time. Won't be ass holes. Etc.)

I'm surprised that you don't understand this, given your business experience. It seems fairly obvious.

(Btw, it seems we are back in our happy place. I was getting concerned that we were agreeing too much!)

But if they don't have a social media presence…

I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Too soon?

 

[derg]

Because 4,936 women said no? rop mic:

Oh god. Not everyone needs to be married. That's a lie perpetrated by "The Man".

 

[B767]

Oh god. Not everyone needs to be married. That's a lie perpetrated by "The Man".

Oh I know. I just saw an opportunity and took it.

I'm happily married and love my kids. I used to be a happy single guy with no kids. Would I trade my life now for the old one? Absolutely not! I would not trade my life now for the single life. Had I never been married and never had kids though I would probably be saying "I would never trade my life for the married one."

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

If all the company is looking for is a pilot group full of facsimiles, sure. But it's not. It's looking for people who:

1. Fit the culture. (Cultures exist and vary, despite your repeated denials. The culture at Blue is WAY different than at my last airline.)

Pilots tend to conform to culture, as part of being a professional pilot is being a chameleon. Pilots are constantly conforming to new captains, new checklists, new profiles, new SOPs, etc. It's just a part of the gig.

2. Can be something MORE than pilots. (Check airmen, instructors, chief pilots, safety guys, recruiters, etc.)

Of course, and in any large group of pilots, even if selected entirely at random, you'll be able to find the guys who fit those jobs well. But you're not screening for safety guys when hiring pilots, you're screening for pilots, because 95% of them will never be anything more than line guys.

3. Will be good employees. (Not call out sick all the damn time. Won't be ass holes. Etc.)

Pretty much impossible to screen for. Yes, a-holes volunteer at Habitat for Humanity, too.

 

[tbstanto]

Do not take this personal because, after all, I do not know you and I just naturally type sarcastic. <— see? smiley face!

But if you can't make the case that a temporary cut in pay is going to quickly recouped in career advancement and, if you're leaving for a company where the paint on the side of the jet matches the paycheck or even a better career opportunity, it might be a good idea to discuss the economic principles of "opportunity cost".

I can make the case that a temporary pay cut is worth the risk, and in my situation, I did it and am at PSA now. I spent a year outstation based flying 135 and away from my wife and kids, and then took a huge pay cut to go to a regional. I missed holidays, birthdays, father/daughter dances, and was no help to my wife when the kids were sick. Why, because I knew it would pay off in the end and get me to my goal the fastest.

I am just saying that to some people, it may not be worth it. After my third month away from my kids, I was really questioning my decision. I am happy that I did it, but my wife and kids had to sacrifice just as much as I did. That is something that you really need to consider when making these decisions.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Do not take this personal because, after all, I do not know you and I just naturally type sarcastic. <— see? smiley face!

But if you can't make the case that a temporary cut in pay is going to quickly recouped in career advancement and, if you're leaving for a company where the paint on the side of the jet matches the paycheck or even a better career opportunity, it might be a good idea to discuss the economic principles of "opportunity cost".

And I might add, if you're married to someone who expects you to continue languishing in a crappy dead-end job just to make her happy, then you've got yourself a crappy relationship. Hence my feelings on relationships.