V-22 Osprey Drivers

deadstick said:
The r/w characteristics will, such as settling with power.
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After the Marana accident, the test flights showed that the Osprey was actually very forgiving when it comes to settling with power (AKA vortex ring state). The problem was in that crash, one rotor entered VRS while the other didn't = instant Vmc roll at 500 AGL = 19 dead Marines
 
deadstick said:
Wasn't somebody says they went right into the 22 without UPT?

When I rule the world, they'd go through the full IERW course at Rucker and the C12 f/w transition. The way I see it, when an engine fails there is no asymmetrical thrust or critical engine. The trannies send power to the other side. In short, the f/w stuff won't kill 'em quickly. The r/w characteristics will, such as settling with power.
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The Marine I spoke with told me that pilots were being taught to fly the V-22 without having prior training on another helicopter or airplane.
Now, he didn't specify it, but I believe that "another helicopter or airplane" means MILITARY helicopter or airplane.

I can't imagine teaching someone to fly something like the Osprey without some basic VFR bugsmasher training first, right?
 
USMCmech said:
After the Marana accident, the test flights showed that the Osprey was actually very forgiving when it comes to settling with power (AKA vortex ring state). The problem was in that crash, one rotor entered VRS while the other didn't = instant Vmc roll at 500 AGL = 19 dead Marines
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One got into vortex ring state and the other didn't? How do the flight controls work when the nacelles are vertical? I think I understand the voo-doo that controls a tandem rotor aircraft, and I think I figured out how only one could get into VRS in a 46/47. I'm still trying to figure out how this would happen in a PL.
 
deadstick said:
One got into vortex ring state and the other didn't? How do the flight controls work when the nacelles are vertical? I think I understand the voo-doo that controls a tandem rotor aircraft, and I think I figured out how only one could get into VRS in a 46/47. I'm still trying to figure out how this would happen in a PL.
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The pilot put the aircraft into a slip to bleed off forward airspeed, this uncoordinated condition put the left (I think?) rotor into VRS, but the right was not. The roll started imeadiatly after rudder was applied so that was the final link in the error chain.

I'm hardly an expert on helos much less the osprey, but that's the basic idea. I can't explain all the aerodynamics but since I had know the crew chief I paid fairly close attention to the investigation.


Billy, If my information is correct, new CV-22 pilots go through basic fixed wing flight training in the T-6 with all SNAs before they are selected for the various training tracks. Then they go through part of the twin turboprop course in C-12(AKA King Air)s, then they go through part of the the helo course in the Jet Ranger (I forget the designation). After those courses, they go to the FRS and fly the osprey in the training squadron.
 
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killbilly said:
The Marine I spoke with told me that pilots were being taught to fly the V-22 without having prior training on another helicopter or airplane.
Now, he didn't specify it, but I believe that "another helicopter or airplane" means MILITARY helicopter or airplane.

I can't imagine teaching someone to fly something like the Osprey without some basic VFR bugsmasher training first, right?
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... and you believed him? Here's a link describing the different pipelines.

http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/training.htm
 
USAF MV-22 crews come from the rotary wing pipeline: 6 months on the T-6 Texan II in the first half of UPT, 6 months on the TH-1H Super Huey at Ft Rucker to get their wings. Then advanced training on the V-22 at Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, then off to their unit of assignment in AFSOC.
 
MikeD said:
USAF MV-22 crews come from the rotary wing pipeline: 6 months on the T-6 Texan II in the first half of UPT, 6 months on the TH-1H Super Huey at Ft Rucker to get their wings. Then advanced training on the V-22 at Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, then off to their unit of assignment in AFSOC.
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I didn't even consider the AF.

Any thoughts on the different training approaches? I guess the AF approach would allow an easy transition to helos if need demanded.

As far as civilian employment, the Marine is closer to a FW 121 gig, if that was the goal. In the civ RW world, I would think RW hours would trump being ATP or RATP qualified with low RW time and the AF guy might have a tougher row to hoe.

Thoughts?
 
Pilot Fighter said:
I didn't even consider the AF.

Any thoughts on the different training approaches? I guess the AF approach would allow an easy transition to helos if need demanded.

As far as civilian employment, the Marine is closer to a FW 121 gig, if that was the goal. In the civ RW world, I would think RW hours would trump being ATP or RATP qualified with low RW time and the AF guy might have a tougher row to hoe.

Thoughts?
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Funny you ask. About 8 months ago, the USAF was pushing for taking V-22 candidates and moving their pipeline from the rotary wing pipeline post-T-6 phase, and shifting them to the T-1 Jayhawk (Beechjet 400) track post-T-6 phase, which is the track that tanker/transport selectees go to. The logic behind that was that people coming from the rotary wing track of UH-1s were graduating with no knowledge or experience in high altitude enroute operations such that the V-22 might fly to and from (I don't know its operating altitudes enroute), and weren't prepared adequately for the fixed-wing portion of V-22 flying. This was tossed back and forth as an idea for a couple of months, before being kept where it was: T-6, to UH-1, to V-22. No change.
 
MikeD said:
USAF MV-22 crews come from the rotary wing pipeline: 6 months on the T-6 Texan II in the first half of UPT, 6 months on the TH-1H Super Huey at Ft Rucker to get their wings. Then advanced training on the V-22 at Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, then off to their unit of assignment in AFSOC.
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Thought AF dudes went to New River before Kirtland?
 
Vector said:
Thought AF dudes went to New River before Kirtland?
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Yes, they do something there at New River, train in both places. There and Kirtland. Only because I don't believe Kirtland yet has the full training program for the AF on the V-22.
 
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