All bets on the Don't Pass line.
But I'm nice and calm about it; it's not like I place my bets then loudly exclaim "c'mon house! Lets win big here!" just prior to the shooter tossing the dice....
Imminent Strike at G4
- Thread starter HVYMETALDRVR
- Start date
All bets on the Don't Pass line.
But I'm nice and calm about it; it's not like I place my bets then loudly exclaim "c'mon house! Lets win big here!" just prior to the shooter tossing the dice....
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
All bets on the Don't Pass line.
But I'm nice and calm about it; it's not like I place my bets then loudly exclaim "c'mon house! Lets win big here!" just prior to the shooter tossing the dice....
Haha. That will get you strung up in some places!
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Pretty much the perfect example of why "independent unions" are a huge problem for the profession.
planejay
Well-Known Member
Just for my clarification, whenever an ALPA group is negotiating/voting they are always thinking about the best interests of their ALPA brethren rather than their own? I find it hard to believe if we ask Endeavor, Envoy, or CommutAir pilots what they were thinking when they last voted it would be "How can I help the Delta group?" I could be wrong though.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
You should stop by an Executive Board meeting sometime. You'll be shocked at how much the different MECs are working together.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
How the MECs feel about working for the greater good and how the line pilots feel about working for the greater good are not always mutually inclusive.
But market cap, which is what really matters, you guys are < 3 billion. Stock price is not what a company is worth.
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
Yes, but the stock price, whether falsely inflated or overvalued or whatever is what has made everyone so much money. It's doubled in the past year alone.
I'm not stating it's falsely inflated or overvalued. Those would be taking a look at P/E, which actually isn't too terrible. Yes the share price has nearly doubled but not really an indicator of the strength of the stock/company.
All I'm saying is don't look at the share price. Apple was $750+ a share last year. It's $125 currently, but only 10 bucks off it's all time high.
Allegiant's Market Cap is 2.8bln and has a share price $169.
Delta has a Market Cap of around 30bln and has a share price of $42.
Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
ALGT is highly overvalued right now.... My guess is its real book value is somewhere between 40-65/share...
On what basis?
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Basically here is what I take from this thread. We all support the G4 pilots. However they need to be cautious since they are in unmarked territory. This can result in slightly more ammo for Unions under the RLA but it has a high chance to backfire. The IBT really should be up front to their members about that.
I hope you guys win the court case, but I don't have high expectations. I have a feeling this may put G4 pilots in an even worse position than they started.
I hope you guys win the court case, but I don't have high expectations. I have a feeling this may put G4 pilots in an even worse position than they started.
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SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Avalon781ML said:
I suspect that you're using an accounting term that you don't really understand. You don't have to guess about book value. It's measured using standard accounting practices, and the book value at the end of last quarter was $16.75/share. That's really a meaningless number in terms of valuation for an airline or travel company, though. In fact, it's a useless number for valuation of most businesses.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
You see, it really wouldn't give 99% of us any more 'ammo'. Trust me, we have all the ammo we need under the RLA. When an airline organizes under the RLA the company has to keep the 'status quo' until a contract is in place. Then, as that contract never expires, there can't be a 'status quo strike' as the status won't change as you have a contract in place that doesn't expire. Notice how a contract under the RLA is amended?
Now, to the topic at hand, there is a VERY high bar for a status quo strike to be allowed. Just because a few injunctions one way or another have been issued....well....I am doubtful it reaches that bar. A company would basically need to stop paying their employees all together and say we aren't going to pay them until a contract is in place to allow for a status quo strike to be allowed.
I really wish the G4 Pilots the best, I really do. You guys and gals do seem to be unified as a few months ago I saw about a half dozen G4 Pilots wearing their IBT lanyards in various cities on one trip. Wish that unity was there at other properties.
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Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Good point.
In the end it would just reduce the likelihood of management changing the "status quo" prior to a first contract rather than actually increasing leverage. First contracts clearly don't happen very often.
Hopefully this action helped shed some light on the issues the pilots are facing and their willingness to strike. The shareholders likely aren't very pleased when lied to by management.
Just curious. If the Judge does end up agreeing with the pilots would the NMB cool off or still be pissed?
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SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Maurus said:
They'll still be pissed. They don't care if it's legal. They care about their process not being screwed up.
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
My simple response about our stock price is this. The price has become so high in part because of our massive profits and tremendous amount of sitting cash. Problem is a good portion of this has been earned by stretching our employees thin. The pilots in particular, have paper thin work rules allowing us to be worked to the bone, we only have 5 pilots for every 1 airplane we fly. I myself, would be satisfied with marginally higher hourly pay, better training pay, and the ability to have a decent schedule which includes 15-17 OFF per month and fully commutable schedules for a bidder with some seniority. Schedules like this do not exist at Allegiant. This extra "saved" cash on the backs of the employees has been reinvested as cash purchases of aircraft, a new HQ building, bonuses for management, and a great balance sheet, which has contributed to pushing our stock price so high.
That said, I don't have a problem with the rest of our business model (selling vacation packages, ancillary fees, direct flights from outstations to vacation destinations, no crew overnights, etc) With better compensated and treated staff we are a great stock pick, even at this price. I will also point out that our P/E, while your right is not outrageous, it is still higher than pretty much every other US carrier except for Delta. Another area that I feel the shareholders have conveniently ignored, or have been lied to about, is the supposed "labor harmony" that our CEO and COO have sold to everyone in the conference calls. The truth is anything but, not just for the pilots, but with the FAs and the worker bees in Vegas as well. I've noticed there have been a lot of scheduler and lower level manager resignations recently, we also have a new COO. I think you guys would agree that labor peace and motivated employees that "drink the Kool-Aid," also help a great stock price, along with the normal fundamentals such as earnings, profits, market cap, cash flow, P/E, etc.
I also notice a lot of guys saying, "don't rock the boat," are sitting at Legacies and other carriers with great contracts, or no longer work in the industry. Meanwhile, our pilot group has been suffered though inaccurate pay, TDY's, and horrendous schedules. Our union has been complaining about this "status quo issue," to everyone including the appropriate agencies of the US government on almost deaf ears. As time has passed, more and more damage is done to our pilots and our families. We've endured these struggles for 2+ years and patience is wearing thin here. While many other Legacy pilots have been playing the trumpet that the IBT is acting, "impromptu and irrational, they need to do what's been for the collective group" meanwhile, our pilots are TDY'd for months on end with un-commutable schedules. It's easy to be critical our actions when your sitting in your ivory tower of 95 hours of pay credit and 17 OFF each month or better. Allegiant isn't a mostly-young 20-something pilot group like some regional carriers were back in the 90s and mid-2000s. There's A LOT of guys here that are 45-plus that came from other defunct carriers that are trying to contribute to a great company, get something respectable in return, and round out they're careers strong. We just want to toe the line with everyone else. We don't fly RJs, we fly MD80s, 757s, and A320, our weak pay scales and work rules will be used as averages in bargaining against other airlines that fly the same equipment.
I'd like to say thanks to everyone that has thrown support our way, we greatly appreciate it! I'm glad the discussion on here has stayed civil.
That said, I don't have a problem with the rest of our business model (selling vacation packages, ancillary fees, direct flights from outstations to vacation destinations, no crew overnights, etc) With better compensated and treated staff we are a great stock pick, even at this price. I will also point out that our P/E, while your right is not outrageous, it is still higher than pretty much every other US carrier except for Delta. Another area that I feel the shareholders have conveniently ignored, or have been lied to about, is the supposed "labor harmony" that our CEO and COO have sold to everyone in the conference calls. The truth is anything but, not just for the pilots, but with the FAs and the worker bees in Vegas as well. I've noticed there have been a lot of scheduler and lower level manager resignations recently, we also have a new COO. I think you guys would agree that labor peace and motivated employees that "drink the Kool-Aid," also help a great stock price, along with the normal fundamentals such as earnings, profits, market cap, cash flow, P/E, etc.
I also notice a lot of guys saying, "don't rock the boat," are sitting at Legacies and other carriers with great contracts, or no longer work in the industry. Meanwhile, our pilot group has been suffered though inaccurate pay, TDY's, and horrendous schedules. Our union has been complaining about this "status quo issue," to everyone including the appropriate agencies of the US government on almost deaf ears. As time has passed, more and more damage is done to our pilots and our families. We've endured these struggles for 2+ years and patience is wearing thin here. While many other Legacy pilots have been playing the trumpet that the IBT is acting, "impromptu and irrational, they need to do what's been for the collective group" meanwhile, our pilots are TDY'd for months on end with un-commutable schedules. It's easy to be critical our actions when your sitting in your ivory tower of 95 hours of pay credit and 17 OFF each month or better. Allegiant isn't a mostly-young 20-something pilot group like some regional carriers were back in the 90s and mid-2000s. There's A LOT of guys here that are 45-plus that came from other defunct carriers that are trying to contribute to a great company, get something respectable in return, and round out they're careers strong. We just want to toe the line with everyone else. We don't fly RJs, we fly MD80s, 757s, and A320, our weak pay scales and work rules will be used as averages in bargaining against other airlines that fly the same equipment.
I'd like to say thanks to everyone that has thrown support our way, we greatly appreciate it! I'm glad the discussion on here has stayed civil.
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HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
We requested to be released back in January, IIRC the NMB cancelled future negotiations around the same time. I believe 4 sections out of 30 have been TA'd, although at one point the company tried to roll back and renegotiate some of those items.
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