Imminent Strike at G4

PhilosopherPilot said:
It isn't that I'm not supportive. I absolutely think that it is a HUGE deal to violate a person's right to vote. But that being said, if you push the boundaries of the 14th amendment it can make things worse for yourself and everyone else too. Love it or hate it, we are bound by the 14th amendment, and the precedent isn't there for this expansion of rights.
Click to expand...

Take the same argument, and put it in a context where you would disagree with the outcome, and you will see that the form of the argument is faulty ab initio.
 
Just talked to some people in the know, one of whom made a very good point. I will admit this has already been said on the other forum.

Most airlines' management aren't this aggressive towards they're pilot group, even during contract negotiations. Refusing to follow the status quo, basically changing the contract, while ignoring two court orders is pretty ballsy and obnoxious. It's a line not often crossed.

If we fail, and many here seem to be ready to smile and say "I told you so!," brace yourselves. This "scortched earth" negotiating tactic will show up everywhere, JBlue, F9, Spirit, and the Legacies. We have a CEO and shareholder's wet dream of a stock price and are darlings of Wall St right now. Despite all the niceties your CEO displays currently, he/she will have to choose between his ethics/negotiating tactics vs his/her job, as the BOD and shareholders will be happy to replace them with someone that will do whatever it takes to inflate the profit margin. AFAIK even with the recent dip we have the highest price airline stock in the world, unfortunately nothing happens in a vacuum anymore.
 
Last edited:
jtrain609 said:
Take the same argument, and put it in a context where you would disagree with the outcome, and you will see that the form of the argument is faulty ab initio.
Click to expand...

I understand the position, and I understand that limits get pushed, but my point is that there could be implications for the rest of us, and not the positive kind.

We have (a few) guys here calling for a wildcat strike already. We haven't even started negotiating. If those people get a foothold, the NMB will enjoy shoving the RLA in our faces. The things going on at Allegiant are emboldening those people here, and that's not good.

At any rate, good luck guys.

(Edit for clarification)

The wildcat voices here don't understand unions, the RLA, or negotiating in general. So these discussions about the finer points of the RLA go WAY over their heads.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I understand the position, and I understand that limits get pushed, but my point is that there could be implications for the rest of us, and not the positive kind.

We have (a few) guys here calling for a wildcat strike already. We haven't even started negotiating. If those people get a foothold, the NMB will enjoy shoving the RLA in our faces. The things going on at Allegiant are emboldening those people here, and that's not good.

At any rate, good luck guys.

(Edit for clarification)

The wildcat voices here don't understand unions, the RLA, or negotiating in general. So these discussions about the finer points of the RLA go WAY over their heads.
Click to expand...

Wildcat strikes are unacceptable. Strikes which are not allowed under the law or sanction by a court or other authorized tribunal are unacceptable, and are not strikes at all, they are people quitting their jobs.

But again, without pushing the limits, progress is not made. LEGAL pushing in a court where such action is sanctioned, not taking the law into your own hands.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
We have (a few) guys here calling for a wildcat strike already. We haven't even started negotiating. If those people get a foothold, the NMB will enjoy shoving the RLA in our faces. The things going on at Allegiant are emboldening those people here, and that's not good.

At any rate, good luck guys.

(Edit for clarification)

The wildcat voices here don't understand unions, the RLA, or negotiating in general. So these discussions about the finer points of the RLA go WAY over their heads.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

There has been no talk of an illegal wildcat strike at G4, whatsoever. I know we disagree, about the legality of this latest episode. But we've been working within our intrepretations and our goal is not to do anything illegal.

Again, not everyone in these forums is abreast of our situation, but this option to try and "restore" the status quo has been on the table since January. It wasn't a last minute "Leroy Jenkins," it's been careful thought-out and planned and everyone knew it was coming.

Please don't push any of that JB drama that on us.
 
Last edited:
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Thanks.

There has been no talk of an illegal wildcat strike at G4, whatsoever. I know we disagree, about the legality of this latest episode. But we've been working within our intrepretations and our goal is not to do anything illegal.

Again, not everyone in these forums is abreast of our situation, but this option to try and "restore" the status quo has been on the table since January. It wasn't a last minute "Leroy Jenkins," it's been careful throughout and planned and everyone knew it was coming.

Please don't push any of that JB drama that on us.
Click to expand...

I didn't say you were having a wildcat strike. I was talking about some JetBlue loudmouths who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

That being said, we do disagree about the legality of this strike. If it is illegal, it is a wildcat strike, yes?

I'm no lawyer or judge, so my opinion about the legal status of your job action is irrelevant. I'm just sharing my opinion from the outside looking in, and hoping that it doesn't cause problems for the industry at large.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I didn't say you were having a wildcat strike. I was talking about some JetBlue loudmouths who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

That being said, we do disagree about the legality of this strike. If it is illegal, it is a wildcat strike, yes?

I'm no lawyer or judge, so my opinion about the legal status of your job action is irrelevant. I'm just sharing my opinion from the outside looking in, and hoping that it doesn't cause problems for the industry at large.
Click to expand...

Got it.

My understanding of a wildcat strike is when you intentionally de-certify the union first, and then call an illegal strike. The reason you de certify is so that the company can't really sue anyone for damages, except the ring leaders of the strike (if they can figure out who they were.) The trick is that there is no official organization to blame, so the company is left to pick up the pieces.

That said, G4 pilots will not walk off the job illegally. As we already demonstrated this, you have nothing to worry about.
 
Last edited:
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Got it.

My understanding of a wildcat strike is when you intentionally de-certify the union first, and then call an illegal strike. The reason you de certify is so that the company can't really sue anyone except the ring leaders of the strike (if they can figure out who it was.)

That said, G4 pilots will not walk off the job illegally. As we already demonstrated this, you have nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...

A wildcat strike is any strike without Union leadership support. I'm not suggesting that your situation is that. It certainly isn't without Union leadership.

It is not at all clear that we have nothing to worry about though. As @ATNPILOT has said, this could have implications for us, as we are in a similar situation with a new union and no pre-existing CBA.

We are interested observers.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
. Despite all the niceties your CEO displays currently, he/she will have to choose between his ethics/negotiating tactics vs his/her job, as the BOD and shareholders will be happy to replace them with someone that will do whatever it takes to inflate the profit margin. AFAIK even with the recent dip we have the highest price airline stock in the world, unfortunately nothing happens in a vacuum anymore.
Click to expand...


This is so true. We have quite a few people over here willing to bury their heads in the sand on this upcoming contract based on the philosophy of "that wouldn't happen to us." Any airline CEO would sell you out for a nickel if they could.
 
@PhilosopherPilot. You mention G4's situation could impact you. I feel each pilot group needs to do what's best for them. If fedex settles before us and certain things impact the ipa I wouldn't hold it against that pilot group for doing what's best for them.

Best of luck to the G4 guys. Feel free to use me as a contact about ups jumpseats if the poop hits the spinning blade.
 
DE727UPS said:
@PhilosopherPilot. You mention G4's situation could impact you. I feel each pilot group needs to do what's best for them. If fedex settles before us and certain things impact the ipa I wouldn't hold it against that pilot group for doing what's best for them.

Best of luck to the G4 guys. Feel free to use me as a contact about ups jumpseats if the poop hits the spinning blade.
Click to expand...

I guess my feeling is that upsetting the NMB is not in their best interest either. It's not good for anyone, including themselves. It's a moot point now anyway. Never a dull moment. :)
 
Sometimes you have to push the boundaries. If they have the favor of the judge and can win at that end the company may be forced to deal.
 
DE727UPS said:
Sometimes you have to push the boundaries. If they have the favor of the judge and can win at that end the company may be forced to deal.
Click to expand...

Like most everything in life, we won't know until we have the benefit of hindsight if it was a brilliant move or the dumbest move ever made.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top