German Wings A320 crashed

Derg said:
I still remember when the door would be open up until moments before takeoff.

When you'd say "flight attendants prepare for takeoff" coming up to the runway, he would say "Cabin is ready for takeoff" and slam the door shut.

Seems like a generation ago.
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Wasn't that long ago. Watching them make the magic on taxi out sealed the deal for me.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Mods: This thread has run its course and needs to be shut down. I'm getting inured to "like"ing Seggy's posts. Cats sleeping with dogs, red skies, bedlam, pandemonium, etc. can't be far behind.

So what's the spread on the F/O being named "Muller" or "Schmidt"?
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Ever played "Germany or Florida?" This might be a good time to start. ;)
 
If it turns out to be depression, as someone who had a friend and coworker put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger, seemingly out of the blue, it's something you can't rationalize.

Tall good looking guy, quick wit, the ladies fawned over this guy and there was no way any of us could figure out what went "wrong".

But, people that commit suicide run the gamut from the most convenient method to elaborate schemes. But it's generally selfish.
 
Derg said:
If it turns out to be depression, as someone who had a friend and coworker put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger, seemingly out of the blue, it's something you can't rationalize.

Tall good looking guy, quick wit, the ladies fawned over this guy and there was no way any of us could figure out what went "wrong".

But, people that commit suicide run the gamut from the most convenient method to elaborate schemes. But it's generally selfish.
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We had a girl jump from our parking garage a couple of weeks ago. It happens often enough that it doesn't usually get a lot of attention. But it turns out this girl was 19 and a student at MIT who had been suffering the last few years from a medical condition that left her in tremendous pain and unable to do many of the things she loved. Doctor's weren't able to alleviate the pain and finally she texted her mother that she loved her and jumped.

I wanted to be all like "suicide is selfish" and what not, but this was one case that was actually rational. As someone who suffered from undiagnosed and untreatable stomach issues in college, I get the despair that comes with being sick and not being able to fix it. But pain is an entirely different thing, and so I didn't blame her for jumping, even if there might have been other options. I don't think she was depressed, I think her QOL had just diminished to such a point that not being alive was better than being alive. I find trouble criticizing the decision since I can't possibly put myself in those shoes.
 
Derg said:
But, people that commit suicide run the gamut from the most convenient method to elaborate schemes. But it's generally selfish.
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When Robin Williams killed himself, there were a few blog posts about what dealing with depression is really like. Not so much how a normal person would feel depressed, but almost a clinical depressive state. It was very interesting as it emphasized the "lack of feeling" vs feeling bad. Almost a "I have no reason to live as I cant feel happy, sad, mad or otherwise." The selfish feeling or responsibility to others was clearly missing from the individuals analysis.

(I don't have the link to the article that was posted, but it had a lot of stick figures and was written by someone who had both contemplated and attempted suicide).

It was eye opening for someone who has never had such thoughts despite having very bad days. It is very much one thing to take your own life for whatever reason and justification (disease, depression, etc) and completely something else to take the lives of others with you.

Don't make your problems, my problems.
 
ahw01 said:
As someone who trained in Phoenix, and has seen a lot of overseas training, even the EASA training they do over there, there should be some push back, its clearly not to do with flying skills, but I do wonder about the value of this MCC license and simple airmanship and management practices.

I cant see someone flying for Delta, American, United doing the same thing, sure there are plenty of life pressures, but after the bitching the job gets done. This says more about Lufthansa and crew management/screening (no one has mentioned the strike yet...)

I'd like to see FAA certificates held in higher esteem given everyone and his uncle trains in US airspace. Let's share some best practice the other way across the pond on this one.
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Yes because us German pilots are a bunch of crazies compared to our perfectly sane American counterparts. Oh America, why can't we be as mentally secure as you.

Ultimately this was a 28 year old instable man. This event is the first to happen in Europe where a pilot committed suicide to my knowledge. There's always a first time. Maybe when it happens in America I will post about how I could never see this happening to someone working for Lufthansa, Air France, or British Airways.
 
Table Two said:
So I guess I'll be taking a crash ax with me next time I go to the bathroom.
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I thought there was a failsafe override system in Airbi for just this sort of thing... not going to give details per Major Domo's AD and common sense, but I'm pretty sure there is some sort of failsafe.
 
Sure it was an unknown unknown before this event, but something tells me US management has better checks and balances. I can't point to what, and I may be proved wrong in time, it's just a feeling I hold.

I'd be interested to know what his sympathies or otherwise with the strike were for example.
 
Derg said:
If it turns out to be depression, as someone who had a friend and coworker put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger, seemingly out of the blue, it's something you can't rationalize.

Tall good looking guy, quick wit, the ladies fawned over this guy and there was no way any of us could figure out what went "wrong".

But, people that commit suicide run the gamut from the most convenient method to elaborate schemes. But it's generally selfish.
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It's probably the most selfish thing you can do, and expecting someone to be neat and tidy about it overlooks the selfish nature of the act itself.

It's still unbelievably tragic whenever it happens, and infinitely moreso if more people are taken out in the process.
 
Murdoughnut said:
We had a girl jump from our parking garage a couple of weeks ago. It happens often enough that it doesn't usually get a lot of attention. But it turns out this girl was 19 and a student at MIT who had been suffering the last few years from a medical condition that left her in tremendous pain and unable to do many of the things she loved. Doctor's weren't able to alleviate the pain and finally she texted her mother that she loved her and jumped.

I wanted to be all like "suicide is selfish" and what not, but this was one case that was actually rational. As someone who suffered from undiagnosed and untreatable stomach issues in college, I get the despair that comes with being sick and not being able to fix it. But pain is an entirely different thing, and so I didn't blame her for jumping, even if there might have been other options. I don't think she was depressed, I think her QOL had just diminished to such a point that not being alive was better than being alive. I find trouble criticizing the decision since I can't possibly put myself in those shoes.
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Truth.

On the extremes, my friend had lots of opportunities to reach out if he even had the mental capacity do it is (I really have no idea and will never know) and on the other extreme, if you're terminally ill, there shouldn't be a religio-societal stigma about dying with some dignity.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The DC-9 accident stats would be skewed because the airplane started operations in the '60s rather than the late '80s. A whole hell of a lot has changed in that time to improve safety beyond just the aircraft design, and you'll note that fatal accidents in the -9 were nil while NWA and DAL operated them the last couple of decades.

But that's not to say that the old Douglas products were perfect. They just had a pilot-centric design philosophy that basically said "the pilot is in control, period." Even after throwing all of the fancy avionics and automation into the 717, nothing ever took the pilot out of complete control over the airplane. No computers second guessing you.
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My grandpa loved that airplane and was put in charge of the DC-9 program when TWA bought them in mid 60's. Wrote the training, flew acceptance flights, etc. Loved how it flew. When I was 12 or so I found a bunch of boxes in the basement. It was all the data/papers/transcripts from TWA's first DC-9 wreck which he obviously had to work on as the TWA representative. It absolutely captivated me - the detail, etc. I generally hate government but have to recognize the NTSB does really great work on balance.
 
Derg said:
Truth.

On the extremes, my friend had lots of opportunities to reach out if he even had the mental capacity do it is (I really have no idea and will never know) and on the other extreme, if you're terminally ill, there shouldn't be a religio-societal stigma about dying with some dignity.
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There shouldn't be a stigma - societal, professional, etc. - about getting help either.
 
Runincolorado said:
Absolutely crazy and nuts. Its hard to protect people from the very people we trust to do the right thing and keep them safe suddenly turn bad. I am sure there will be discussion about no one being left alone in the cockpit again. Here at a European Airport there are already questions as to why that was seemingly ok.
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Point taken, however, if we want to get into a discussion of "who will watch the watchers?", we have LOTS of much bigger fish to fry than the two or three unfortunate souls who have been charged with flying aircraft but instead chose intentionally to crash them. I would suggest we start with the bigger fish. Unfortunately, we humans being the emotional neo-post-monkeys that we are, do a really terrible job of assessing, preventing, and responding to risk (in that order).
 
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