Allegiant Airlines
- Thread starter BravoHotel
- Start date
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I'd rather be fired for not scabbing than lose the ability to "positively network" up to a place I wanted to end my career. I put it rather nicely, there are other disadvantages to scabbing, but in a nutshell, it's all about networking. Scabbing is negative networking. Showing solidarity (and well, hopefully not getting fired for it, but if so, oh well), is positive networking.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, maybe I have my seats mixed up. That sounds right though after thinking about it.
HRDiva
Well-Known Member
I can name names! The CA was a bitter arrogant entitled jerk.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
It is such a dicey game. Management isn't usually part of the union, so if you are interviewing at a union job, how does it look to management if you get fired from your previous company for NOT crossing? Of course I would not ever scab, but it is such a funny thing when you as a pilot are siding with the union, yet management is usually not unionized.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Good discussion so far in this thread but I think it is important to talk about a few things in more detail.
Usually, when a carrier goes on strike, they have a strike center manned 24/7 during the strike to answer phone calls from pilots across the industry to answer the question, 'is this struck work'. It can get VERY complex, but there are resources out there to pilots to help get that question answered.
But, before we even get to that point, a lot of places you would want to work these days for a 'career destination' have no desire to help their competition out if their competitors pilots seek 'self help' so (I think) it will hardly get to the point where other companies are flooding in to fly struck work. Not only that, but in today's industrial environment (largely thanks to the Spirit Pilots and how their strike was executed) it is going to be increasingly difficult for management at companies that are willing to fly struck work to find pilots willing to cross a picket line. Management knows this as well! Look at the great lengths that Falcon Air FO had to go through to even attempt to save face. Listen to the youtube audio of them taxing out. The Spirit strike was a game changer for the industry. Spirit management really thought they were going to be able to get folks to cross the line whether it be Spirit Pilots or pilots from other carriers. In the lead up to the Spirit strike a lot of non-union pilot groups at supplemental carriers were very proactive and went to their management and said, 'don't even think of flying for Spirit if their company goes on strike as you won't have pilots to do the work'.
While a lot of things are grey in aviation, one thing is black and white. DO NOT CROSS A PICKET LINE.
It is not as dicey as you would think. As a matter of fact, I would argue the opposite. At most of the 'career destination airlines' out there today, hiring is controlled by Pilot Management. So let us take a look at their backgrounds. The VP of Flight Operations at Delta used to be the MEC Chair (head of the union) at Northwest. He went on strike. The VP of Flight Operations at United used to be the Executive Administrator for ALPA National. He went on strike as well! The Chief Pilot at Alaska used to be a Captain Representative for ALPA. There are more, but folks should get the point. @HRDiva can probably talk about this more, but I would say that the HR Representatives sitting in on the interview panel would look at someone who refused to cross a picket line and was fired for it, as one with a lot of moral character. If they didn't right away, the line pilots doing the interviews at your 'career destination airline' would certainly be looking at that pilot in that regard. Furthermore, management pilots ARE part of the union, at least with ALPA. They are known as Executive Inactive members.
I hope the above clarifies a few things.
Good luck to the Allegiant Pilots.
Once again, while a lot of things are grey in aviation, one thing is black and white. DO NOT CROSS A PICKET LINE.
Usually, when a carrier goes on strike, they have a strike center manned 24/7 during the strike to answer phone calls from pilots across the industry to answer the question, 'is this struck work'. It can get VERY complex, but there are resources out there to pilots to help get that question answered.
But, before we even get to that point, a lot of places you would want to work these days for a 'career destination' have no desire to help their competition out if their competitors pilots seek 'self help' so (I think) it will hardly get to the point where other companies are flooding in to fly struck work. Not only that, but in today's industrial environment (largely thanks to the Spirit Pilots and how their strike was executed) it is going to be increasingly difficult for management at companies that are willing to fly struck work to find pilots willing to cross a picket line. Management knows this as well! Look at the great lengths that Falcon Air FO had to go through to even attempt to save face. Listen to the youtube audio of them taxing out. The Spirit strike was a game changer for the industry. Spirit management really thought they were going to be able to get folks to cross the line whether it be Spirit Pilots or pilots from other carriers. In the lead up to the Spirit strike a lot of non-union pilot groups at supplemental carriers were very proactive and went to their management and said, 'don't even think of flying for Spirit if their company goes on strike as you won't have pilots to do the work'.
While a lot of things are grey in aviation, one thing is black and white. DO NOT CROSS A PICKET LINE.
It is not as dicey as you would think. As a matter of fact, I would argue the opposite. At most of the 'career destination airlines' out there today, hiring is controlled by Pilot Management. So let us take a look at their backgrounds. The VP of Flight Operations at Delta used to be the MEC Chair (head of the union) at Northwest. He went on strike. The VP of Flight Operations at United used to be the Executive Administrator for ALPA National. He went on strike as well! The Chief Pilot at Alaska used to be a Captain Representative for ALPA. There are more, but folks should get the point. @HRDiva can probably talk about this more, but I would say that the HR Representatives sitting in on the interview panel would look at someone who refused to cross a picket line and was fired for it, as one with a lot of moral character. If they didn't right away, the line pilots doing the interviews at your 'career destination airline' would certainly be looking at that pilot in that regard. Furthermore, management pilots ARE part of the union, at least with ALPA. They are known as Executive Inactive members.
I hope the above clarifies a few things.
Good luck to the Allegiant Pilots.
Once again, while a lot of things are grey in aviation, one thing is black and white. DO NOT CROSS A PICKET LINE.
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Are they just no longer dues-paying, or in a non-voting status?
Seggy
Well-Known Member
They do have to pay dues but at a much reduced rate. They get the services like the magazine, access to the ALPA Insurance, and the big one, ALPA Aeromedical services
They can't vote though.
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
We may have a couple cross here I suspect, but we're not the small supplemental we were 10 years ago. No way they'll even be able to cover 5% of our flying if we walk IMO.
Eagle421flyer
Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope no one crosses the line there. I think the worst position will be for those "management" pilots in the office, it's been over a year since I left so I don't know who is left there anymore but I suspect if anyone crosses it would be them (I'm not saying they will). As a side note I know almost everyone in the office (who isn't a pilot) they trained as flight attendents in case the fa's went on strike.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
I don't understand why people ultimately cross. I understand financial pressures, but the big picture is one day(sooner than later it would normally seem), you'll be right back in the cockpit with all your coworkers who stood the line, and the rest of your time at that carrier is going to be very, very uncomfortable. Seems like a very short-sighted gain for a long term loss that will follow a pilot for the rest of their career. Especially with the social media outlets we have today making the harassment of a scab that much easier and more public.
The examples that you give, did they get fired for not crossing the line? What are the "typical" results for management pilots that don't cross - do they get fired or not?
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
I suspect a couple might, one is a scab from a previous carrier going back a few decades. Quite frankly (as he's close to retirement) I don't think he cares, then there are a few other fervent anti-Union guys left. FWIW I know another guy that voted no to the strike vote, but he's made it clear he won't cross if we do walk. I respect his opinions and he's a standup guy. All the management pilots I know in FL are on board.
What greener pastures have you moved on to after G4? Legacy, overseas, or corporate?
Seggy
Well-Known Member
These gentlemen weren't in management at the time during their respective strikes, they were union volunteers. I should also add that another one of our chief pilots was fired (along with 569ish others) who were on probation during a strike in 1985. ALPA did get all of these folks their jobs back either as a return to work clause or quickly after by suing in court for these folks. I should have pointed that out yesterday.
Interestingly enough management pilots can technically fly during a strike and it not be considered struck work. That is spelled out in the CBAs (at least within ALPA). However, when faced with this option, those covered under this clause in the Spirit contract quit their roles in management and joined the guys and gals on the picket line.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
I remember the FO of falcon air posting something following flying struck work. It truly sucks to be labeled if you had no idea you were flying struck work. Some guys don't keep their finger on the pulse of the industry like we do, and if that's thr style of flying your airline does anyways, I could see it happen.
Interesting, thanks.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
There is NO WAY he didn't know. No freakin' way. Even in 2010 we had 24/7 internet culture.
Eagle421flyer
Well-Known Member
I went to Spirit and other than the pay it's great.
This is where the management guys at allegiant might have an issue, I doubt they will fly (at least the ones I know/knew?) BUT they probably will be fire or demoted, pretty sure there is nothing in AAY's "agreement" that covers this situation.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
Good time to get on an antibiotic.Eagle421flyer said:
