Delta Upgrade Time Vol. II

B767 said:
Easy fix. "Puddle jumper 123, say speed."

"280"

"Well reduce to 250. You're 280 is 30 knots faster than the guy you're following."

"Must be the winds. Slowing to 250."
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I've never been told that...I also say "Two eighty, but what d'ya need?"
 
Trip7 said:
+1. I always believed separating the 200 and 7/9 was unnecessary.
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Flying them all in the same day isn't a great idea. The pronounced nose-down attitude of the -200 (OMG WE R GONNA BECOME A CRATER AND FIREBALL) on final alarms me to this day in back, while the -7/-9 approach at perfectly 'normal' deck angles.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Yeah, it flat out will not do it better than about what you've said. I'll mess with it on my way into Minneapolis on Saturday to annoy @ClarkGriswold and his coworkers.

I also like using the performance data to determine what the estimated crossing altitude for each fix is too, if it's on the high side I know there'll be a deceleration problem. Figuring out tricks is fun, for sure.


I will not abide sloppy flying. That may be how they do it at Southwest (ducks!), but it is not how I do it, especially considering the fanatically accurate navigation precision I have.
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It will ALWAYS be high. Glad you know that trick. It will come in handy
 
Autothrust Blue said:
FFIXX//5 <insert> 280/ "Confirm? ENGAGE!"
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DON'T DO THIS!

The nav systems vary on all the different manufacturer set ups, but one thing they have in common is that they only look at the course difference between the current course and the outbound course from the next fix (sometimes with wind correction and some times without depending on the sophistication of the system) when planning lead time for the turn. In other words, if you are approaching a fix that requires a 90 degree course change to head towards the next fix, unless the system has it specified as a FLY OVER POINT the plane will start turning several miles prior to the fix. If the course change is only a few degrees it will not start the turn until just prior to the fix.

If you add in a SLOHR fix 3 miles prior to your actual route fix the nav computer will only see the course between SLOHR and FFIXX (which should be your current course) and will not even look at the big huge course change that might be needed between FFIXX and NXTFX until passing SLOHR. That's fine *most* of the time but every once in a while you'll get a big course change needed at a fix and the plane won't see it until too late to actually make the turn and you will end up way outside the course.

A prime example of this is the old ELDEE arrival into DCA. There is a 90 degree course change at KASDY. Often times they'd have you slow at KASDY so guys would put in a KASDY/-3 with a speed restriction to remind themselves to slow down (or, in a real plane and not a CRJ, have the autothrottles slow you down). The problem is, the plane wouldn't see the 90 degree turn until after the slow down fix and overfly KASDY, ending up rather close to P56 and exactly in the way of any go arounds off of runway 1.
 
BobDDuck said:
DON'T DO THIS!

The nav systems vary on all the different manufacturer set ups, but one thing they have in common is that they only look at the course difference between the current course and the outbound course from the next fix (sometimes with wind correction and some times without depending on the sophistication of the system) when planning lead time for the turn. In other words, if you are approaching a fix that requires a 90 degree course change to head towards the next fix, unless the system has it specified as a FLY OVER POINT the plane will start turning several miles prior to the fix. If the course change is only a few degrees it will not start the turn until just prior to the fix.
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Huh. I haven't witnessed this behavior, but I also haven't seen any fixes with more than a few degrees of turn and a vertical constraint either. Interesting.

I can tell my FMS to fly-over or fly-by, too. It's buried somewhere on NAV if I remember correctly.

If you add in a SLOHR fix 3 miles prior to your actual route fix the nav computer will only see the course between SLOHR and FFIXX (which should be your current course) and will not even look at the big huge course change that might be needed between FFIXX and NXTFX until passing SLOHR. That's fine *most* of the time but every once in a while you'll get a big course change needed at a fix and the plane won't see it until too late to actually make the turn and you will end up way outside the course.

A prime example of this is the old ELDEE arrival into DCA. There is a 90 degree course change at KASDY. Often times they'd have you slow at KASDY so guys would put in a KASDY/-3 with a speed restriction to remind themselves to slow down (or, in a real plane and not a CRJ, have the autothrottles slow you down). The problem is, the plane wouldn't see the 90 degree turn until after the slow down fix and overfly KASDY, ending up rather close to P56 and exactly in the way of any go arounds off of runway 1.
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Well, I wouldn't want to buzz the House of Obama, for sure. I don't think Delta would look upon me favorably if I did.

The thought of (ugh) going to manual speeds before the fix displeases me.
 
You guys know the boards work pretty well too, right? And there's a manual speed mode, so you can start the deceleration on your own in manual speed mode, and then pull the boards to keep the descent angle the same while decelerating?

Or wait, do I only use boards because I'm a terrible regional pilot?
 
jtrain609 said:
You guys know the boards work pretty well too, right? And there's a manual speed mode, so you can start the deceleration on your own in manual speed mode, and then pull the boards to keep the descent angle the same while decelerating?

Or wait, do I only use boards because I'm a terrible regional pilot?
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Haha I know of several captains at airways that brief that we aren't to touch the boards for passenger comfort.
 
jtrain609 said:
HA! They must not fly into DTW at all, where the standard is "Speed 180, descend and maintain 3,000' and hustle down." There's no way to come down quickly without boards.
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That's ATC induced. I like to avoid using them more than 1/2 unless ATC forces me too but I suck so that plan normally doesn't work. Maybe we should fly corporate to be smooth
 
jtrain609 said:
Or wait, do I only use boards because I'm a terrible regional pilot?
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I use boards often.

I thought, with modern aircraft, the notion of using speedbrakes means that you screwed something up was over.

Hell, I will deploy the speedbrakes with one hand and be on the phone with all the detractors mothers with the other saying, "Hey, what's up girl?" :)
 
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