Cool ETOPS images

ppragman cited:
If I read the last map correctly, all the city pairs shown go through non-ETOPS areas. Yes, I realize those are not actual flight paths, but my question is:

Do they have to fly a flight path that keeps them within the ETOPS distances?

Maybe the new phrase is: 'Engines Turn Or People Sink.'

They're overlaid on the 240 map to show why 330 helps.
 
*looks to the right* @dasleben does this look legal or should we start filling out the ASAP before we land?

I would say the one big "gotcha" I've seen, which is totally legal, is ETOPS 180 over the Atlantic when it's not needed. They seem to plan it 180 at least 90% of the time, even when all the approved ETOPS alternates are open. I've been 300 miles from Kef (which is VFR), and 1000+ miles from Shannon, and the paperwork says we're continuing to Shannon if we pop one.

Seems to me they should use the lowest ETOPS divert time required for each particular route (usually 120 for the Atlantic), then increase to 180 if the alternates are down.

But, I'm just a mushroom.
 
I would say the one big "gotcha" I've seen, which is totally legal, is ETOPS 180 over the Atlantic when it's not needed. They seem to plan it 180 at least 90% of the time, even when all the approved ETOPS alternates are open. I've been 300 miles from Kef (which is VFR), and 1000+ miles from Shannon, and the paperwork says we're continuing to Shannon if we pop one.

Seems to me they should use the lowest ETOPS divert time required for each particular route (usually 120 for the Atlantic), then increase to 180 if the alternates are down.

But, I'm just a mushroom.

This is all a mystery. I'm sure they'll tell me all about it.
 
Agreed, but a big part of ETOPS certification criteria is fire suppression capability.


This is why rampers who load my non-ETOPS plane's cargo compartments always keep putting bags in way above the line that it's all supposed to be beneath so as to keep some ceiling area open for effective fire suppression. Because they know: we're not ETOPS. :cool:
 
dasleben said:
I would say the one big "gotcha" I've seen, which is totally legal, is ETOPS 180 over the Atlantic when it's not needed. They seem to plan it 180 at least 90% of the time, even when all the approved ETOPS alternates are open. I've been 300 miles from Kef (which is VFR), and 1000+ miles from Shannon, and the paperwork says we're continuing to Shannon if we pop one. Seems to me they should use the lowest ETOPS divert time required for each particular route (usually 120 for the Atlantic), then increase to 180 if the alternates are down. But, I'm just a mushroom.

As a dispatcher, I was taught at my first gig that just because we are approved for 180 doesn't mean we should plan it 180. If able, plan 120 and give the crew more options. Sure, it's a little more work on the planning side but it gives you guys more choices in the event you need it.
 
I worked at two ETOPS alternates for five years. Four at PMDY, and one at PWAK. People are grateful to be on the ground when their any engined airplane has an emergency.
 
Do they have to fly a flight path that keeps them within the ETOPS distances?

Yes. You must stay within the protected area. When I did my first crossing, our flight plan told us what Tracks were legal to fly to stay within our time to the Alternate, in case we got a track change. If we didn't get one of the Tracks that were legal, we'd have to confer with Dispatch before going ETOPS.

I would say the one big "gotcha" I've seen, which is totally legal, is ETOPS 180 over the Atlantic when it's not needed. They seem to plan it 180 at least 90% of the time, even when all the approved ETOPS alternates are open. I've been 300 miles from Kef (which is VFR), and 1000+ miles from Shannon, and the paperwork says we're continuing to Shannon if we pop one.

Seems to me they should use the lowest ETOPS divert time required for each particular route (usually 120 for the Atlantic), then increase to 180 if the alternates are down.

But, I'm just a mushroom.

My first crossing, we were 180. The Dispatcher still gave us 3 Alternates, even though the weather at KEF was less than ideal (legal, but less than ideal). Sometimes, it makes it easier to file 180 minutes. Not too bad if the plane is completely clean. Plus, it means extra gas, which is always good.
 
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