Delta/Endeavor SSP Extended to All Pilots

OK, can't help myself. Gotta say, I can't wait for the SSP results for the FO's. Not because I want to see them do bad but Barry and Guum-ball and other Delta appointed friends told the union ~a year ago, "your captains often haven't got the experience or resume we are looking for, the FO's are all going to get the no." Of course when it turned out enough FO's would stick around the company a little longer if they could at least get in line for the SSP then the line became, "Absolutely FO's will get a chance to interview."

Whatever happens Endeavor guys, it's been made clear HR is in their own world and no matter what is promised HR will do what HR wants.

If what Barry said the first time and what HR people have told the union, FO's will get about a 5-10% pass on the SSP, you won't even get the captain's abysmal pass rate. However, if that means 15 FO's get something out of this farce, that's better than ZERO!
 
jynxyjoe said:
That's right there is no direction for the quota. One week it'll be 80%, then it'll be 10% with an overall average under 40% (last I saw). Study real hard and if they say no just remember to get the hell out.
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And that's different from the regular interviews how?

(guess what... it's not)
 
jynxyjoe said:
OK, can't help myself. Gotta say, I can't wait for the SSP results for the FO's. Not because I want to see them do bad but Barry and Guum-ball and other Delta appointed friends told the union ~a year ago, "your captains often haven't got the experience or resume we are looking for, the FO's are all going to get the no." Of course when it turned out enough FO's would stick around the company a little longer if they could at least get in line for the SSP then the line became, "Absolutely FO's will get a chance to interview."

Whatever happens Endeavor guys, it's been made clear HR is in their own world and no matter what is promised HR will do what HR wants.

If what Barry said the first time and what HR people have told the union, FO's will get about a 5-10% pass on the SSP, you won't even get the captain's abysmal pass rate. However, if that means 15 FO's get something out of this farce, that's better than ZERO!
Click to expand...

Ah, the lovely scent of cynical and entitlement.

Everyone is scored on the same scale and everyone gets the job that makes the score. End of story.
 
I know a few FO's that have interviewed off the street. They have all told me that if you have been an active crewmember and not just a warm body looking out the window for the past few years you will have no trouble with the Delta interview. Its all about preparation. Put the time in and you will most likely be successful. The SSP failure rate has been higher than the OTS guys because Delta contractually has to interview everyone on property, they can't pick and choose the applicants. I see the pass rate staying the same, perhaps slightly lower or even higher for the FOs. One of the reasons why I have heard for the low pass rate is that 9E guys will walk into the interview with an entitlement attitude, as if we are owed the job. Delta hates this and can sniff it out right away. Be humble and prepared and the odds will be in your favor.
 
I've heard some stories during my cumulative eights weeks in various Airbii schools in the last year.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
And that's different from the regular interviews how?

(guess what... it's not)
Click to expand...
You're approaching this from a little different angle, and I'm assuming you've missed every conversation on this topic from years back so I'll summarize as best I can (this was another company ago). From Endeavors POV we were promised something very different from what we got. So much different it's hard not to see it as a lie that's continuing. Our old DO even rolled his eyes saying he was lied to about what the SSP was suppose to entail. It's an important note, HR for Delta didn't lie to Endeavor, and it appears the negotiation was made without ever checking to see if Delta HR would actually stomach the SSP (guess what... they didn't). Furthermore, the union was lied to that current and ex captains could interview, and when that was flipped around it was shrugged off so to give current captains a shot without poising the well (which was smart and I agree with the direction because at the time guys were still being told it was a meet and greet). Guys were told if they had been given the "no" from Delta in the past, that wouldn't count, lie. This isn't rocket surgery, some of our guys who were in on the contract talks are at your company now (either flows or SSP) and they've not changed their story about how we were lied to. There's definitely a possibility the negotiators were simply lying to get the job done, that's business, and there's nothing to have hard feelings about because Delta is just a business and they're going to do whatever they have to. Like your bankruptcy from earlier years. That just rings a little hollow for me and many of the +1000 guys that left and the +1000 guys that stayed.

Anyway, I don't think everyone expected the SSP to be perfect, but I don't think anyone expected to be lied to and completely brushed off. It's better now, sounds like Delta's gonna fork over (as much as) an additional 60 million to the pilots to try and get them to stay, and give everyone a shot at the interview before 2 years are up. Personally, I'm happy so many of us left because Delta can't staff and it forced Delta to make some changes. This whole thing was pushed up sooner than it would have been otherwise.
PeanuckleCRJ said:
Ah, the lovely scent of cynical and entitlement.

Everyone is scored on the same scale and everyone gets the job that makes the score. End of story.
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Cynical, maybe. Delta has given me reason to be. Entitlement? Not from my chair, but if it helps characterize me in your eyes then please. Label me however, for whatever reason after reading this many of your posts directed at me it really doesn't give me pause or make me think anymore. There was a time I thought you had a point, and I've tried to explain myself fully, afterwards it's clear you've already got your mind made up about me.

Numbers are numbers, end of story. If you want a good shot at something akin to the Endeavor SSP (a little more realistic SSP), go to PSA.
 
Derg said:
I've heard some stories during my cumulative eights weeks in various Airbii schools in the last year.
Click to expand...

I heard a guy urinated in the parking lot after not getting the job. I also heard he showed up late and changed into his interview suit (which was pretty bad) in the bathroom by the interview rooms. It would be easy for Delta to tell all of us to F-off after hearing of things like this and thankfully I think they realize this is not indicative of the overall group in general.
 
undsioux1 said:
I know a few FO's that have interviewed off the street. They have all told me that if you have been an active crewmember and not just a warm body looking out the window for the past few years you will have no trouble with the Delta interview. Its all about preparation. Put the time in and you will most likely be successful. The SSP failure rate has been higher than the OTS guys because Delta contractually has to interview everyone on property, they can't pick and choose the applicants. I see the pass rate staying the same, perhaps slightly lower or even higher for the FOs. One of the reasons why I have heard for the low pass rate is that 9E guys will walk into the interview with an entitlement attitude, as if we are owed the job. Delta hates this and can sniff it out right away. Be humble and prepared and the odds will be in your favor.
Click to expand...
So what makes Endeavor, or perhaps all regionals such an entitled group in only Delta's eyes? Some of those "entitled" pilots go on to other airlines, Jetblue, United, American, Southwest, what have you. Is Delta just hyper reactive to "entitlement" as they term it?

From an outsider's perspective, it seems like whenever Delta buys a regional, those pilots are automatically entitled.
 
jynxyjoe said:
You're approaching this from a little different angle, and I'm assuming you've missed every conversation on this topic from years back so I'll summarize as best I can (this was another company ago). From Endeavors POV we were promised something very different from what we got. So much different it's hard not to see it as a lie that's continuing. Our old DO even rolled his eyes saying he was lied to about what the SSP was suppose to entail. It's an important note, HR for Delta didn't lie to Endeavor, and it appears the negotiation was made without ever checking to see if Delta HR would actually stomach the SSP (guess what... they didn't). Furthermore, the union was lied to that current and ex captains could interview, and when that was flipped around it was shrugged off so to give current captains a shot without poising the well (which was smart and I agree with the direction because at the time guys were still being told it was a meet and greet). Guys were told if they had been given the "no" from Delta in the past, that wouldn't count, lie. This isn't rocket surgery, some of our guys who were in on the contract talks are at your company now (either flows or SSP) and they've not changed their story about how we were lied to. There's definitely a possibility the negotiators were simply lying to get the job done, that's business, and there's nothing to have hard feelings about because Delta is just a business and they're going to do whatever they have to. Like your bankruptcy from earlier years. That just rings a little hollow for me and many of the +1000 guys that left and the +1000 guys that stayed.

Anyway, I don't think everyone expected the SSP to be perfect, but I don't think anyone expected to be lied to and completely brushed off. It's better now, sounds like Delta's gonna fork over (as much as) an additional 60 million to the pilots to try and get them to stay, and give everyone a shot at the interview before 2 years are up. Personally, I'm happy so many of us left because Delta can't staff and it forced Delta to make some changes. This whole thing was pushed up sooner than it would have been otherwise.

Cynical, maybe. Delta has given me reason to be. Entitlement? Not from my chair, but if it helps characterize me in your eyes then please. Label me however, for whatever reason after reading this many of your posts directed at me it really doesn't give me pause or make me think anymore. There was a time I thought you had a point, and I've tried to explain myself fully, afterwards it's clear you've already got your mind made up about me.

Numbers are numbers, end of story. If you want a good shot at something akin to the Endeavor SSP (a little more realistic SSP), go to PSA.
Click to expand...

If you read the bridge agreement, it was very explicit in that if you were a displaced captain that you were out of the SSP. How did anyone try to brush that over? In fact, yall got a big pass on the waiving of the degree thing. Delta hiring requires a degree, yet they aren't holding you to that. There's at least a portion of guys not making the score right there. If your negotiators lied to you, that is your problem and your peers problem for not reading what was in the agreement.

No one that did the SSP was brushed off, however. It is a level playing field and if you make the score, the job is yours. If you're a bump on a log in the plane without a degree, of course you're going to not make it. With a few exceptions, most of those that have not made it have not been a surprise... and the same holds true that have passed.

PSA has a flow, not an SSP. SSP is just a guaranteed interview- nothing more. To try to make anything more of it is to not understand what it is.
 
undsioux1 said:
I heard a guy urinated in the parking lot after not getting the job. I also heard he showed up late and changed into his interview suit (which was pretty bad) in the bathroom by the interview rooms. It would be easy for Delta to tell all of us to F-off after hearing of things like this and thankfully I think they realize this is not indicative of the overall group in general.
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Right, but that's not 60% of the applicants.
Those are cute stories, here's another: one guy told Delta it was "his pleasure to tell you to kiss my ass" and he's at Southwest now. That was one guy. Are you pretending that translates to the other guys too?
 
Those aren't my words. They are from a FO friend of mine (9E) that interview off the street last week. He said that many of the guys told him at the interview that they don't like the SSP and flow programs because they can't choose who they interview. The guys who do the interviews didn't negotiate the SSP, management did so I can understand why they could be upset.
 
undsioux1 said:
Those aren't my words. They are from a FO friend of mine (9E) that interview off the street last week. He said that many of the guys told him at the interview that they don't like the SSP and flow programs because they can't choose who they interview. The guys who do the interviews didn't negotiate the SSP, management did so I can understand why they could be upset.
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The interviewers have seen some real doozies via the SSP. That's what happens with a guaranteed interview, though.

Sure, most of those who bust just didn't make the score, but the real doozies are a real % that contribute to the bust rate.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Right, but that's not 60% of the applicants.
Those are cute stories, here's another: one guy told Delta it was "his pleasure to tell you to kiss my ass" and he's at Southwest now. That was one guy. Are you pretending that translates to the other guys too?
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Absolutely not. My point was that the guys who do the interview don't like that they aren't able to hand pick the applicants. I doubt many guys that are called off the street tell the interviewers to kiss their ass after they are told no, or urinate in the parking lot.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
If you read the bridge agreement, it was very explicit in that if you were a displaced captain that you were out of the SSP. How did anyone try to brush that over? In fact, yall got a big pass on the waiving of the degree thing. Delta hiring requires a degree, yet they aren't holding you to that. There's at least a portion of guys not making the score right there. If your negotiators lied to you, that is your problem and your peers problem for not reading what was in the agreement.
Click to expand...
I hope you're speaking of the royal you. I wasn't in the SSP. I honestly didn't care about the SSP as much as I cared about not being liquidated. Most of us don't pretend to be lawyers, especially those of us who worked around them, so most of us just listen to the synopsis's and try not to play lawyer. In response to your question, that was brought up by many pilots, and they were told that language didn't mean previous captains couldn't get the interview. In fact it was an official communication back. CC has actually posted up the note in here before (he selectively keeps this sort of stuff if it proves some point he had).

Let's be clear, to the 40% or so SSP candidates who DID get the thumbs up, this has been great.
PeanuckleCRJ said:
No one that did the SSP was brushed off, however. It is a level playing field and if you make the score, the job is yours. If you're a bump on a log in the plane without a degree, of course you're going to not make it. With a few exceptions, most of those that have not made it have not been a surprise... and the same holds true that have passed.

PSA has a flow, not an SSP. SSP is just a guaranteed interview- nothing more. To try to make anything more of it is to not understand what it is.
Click to expand...
Well, a flow is a flow. I had a flow. I hit "yes, I'd like to flow to NWA". PSA has an agreement that 98% of guys go onto American if they want to, but you can still get the thumbs down for. I suppose it depends on your definition of a flow versus mine (me who had one). Kit Darby thought the SSP was a flow too, you'd better get us all straightened out here.
 
undsioux1 said:
Absolutely not. My point was that the guys who do the interview don't like that they aren't able to hand pick the applicants. I doubt many guys that are called off the street tell the interviewers to kiss their ass after they are told no, or urinate in the parking lot.
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Yeah, and THAT I agree with. So what was wrong with all the other guys? 59% of your old pilots are bumps on a log and there's 1% that are just embarrassing? 40% are good to goto the next level?
 
A few guys I know have gotten past the panel and knowledge tests, but have been weeded out by the cog test twice. Or other guys will ace the HR but only study gouge online and therefore fail the knowledge test. You have to pass all phases of the interview to be offered the job. Everyone that shows up is graded on the same scale, why someone fails just varies on the individual applicant.
 
jynxyjoe said:
I hope you're speaking of the royal you. I wasn't in the SSP. I honestly didn't care about the SSP as much as I cared about not being liquidated. Most of us don't pretend to be lawyers, especially those of us who worked around them, so most of us just listen to the synopsis's and try not to play lawyer. In response to your question, that was brought up by many pilots, and they were told that language didn't mean previous captains couldn't get the interview. In fact it was an official communication back. CC has actually posted up the note in here before (he selectively keeps this sort of stuff if it proves some point he had).

Let's be clear, to the 40% or so SSP candidates who DID get the thumbs up, this has been great.

Well, a flow is a flow. I had a flow. I hit "yes, I'd like to flow to NWA". PSA has an agreement that 98% of guys go onto American if they want to, but you can still get the thumbs down for. I suppose it depends on your definition of a flow versus mine (me who had one). Kit Darby thought the SSP was a flow too, you'd better get us all straightened out here.
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Sure, we'll count it as a royal you since you said that they convinced yall of the things you stated. That's too bad they said what they said, because obviously via the language it is wrong. The guys without a degree shouldn't have even been offered the SSP per the language, but there was an exception made. No other exceptions were made as you can see.

It's too bad XJ leadership sold you out on the flow- that stinks.

PSA has a guaranteed %- there is no guaranteed % in the SSP, nor was there any intention to have that in the SSP. The fact that Kit Darby thought the SSP was a flow is laughable... I mean, sure some of the stuff is lawyer speak and I get that, but anyone with half a brain can tell it wasn't a flow, just a guaranteed interview if you meet certain criteria.
 
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