KCM

amorris311 said:
Looks like you guys are making good headway with a policy manual and several committee chairs recently appointed. I know it takes a lot longer than most would like but I think your MEC is quite good and pragmatic. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out for you guys. Stay positive and thank you for volunteering.
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It is agonizingly slow, but things are coming together. I agree we have a great MEC.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
KCM access is an interesting (indeed, a pretty dumb) hill to fight upon considering all the other, uh, "things" happening in the industry, particularly at the regional level. Hopefully, nobody noticed the emperor is naked.
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It was just a discussion point.

I mean, on the list of things I would vent my spleen over were I an ALPA pilot (or even just an airline pilot regardless of my representation or lack of), letting SkyWest pilots use KCM because "we don't pay for it" (itself a false claim previously debunked) would not even be on the first page.
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Once again the investment ALPA made in this program cost much more money than the measly admin fee.

I think I would worry about the whipsaw, Emirates, and just about anything safety related before I would even consider fighting on this hill.
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Agreed.

The words "petulant poo-flinging" come to mind, and you certainly won't make anyone I work with vote yes through this viewpoint. Which, uh, which might be a better effort to focus on. Big tent, right?
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ALPA tried the touchy feely approach a few times and millions were flushed and it got ALPA nowhere. So I'm pretty apathetic.

Stand for something better.
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I know I do.

Not sure about others on here how they can justify what the foreign carriers are doing.
 
Seggy said:
Once again, it's not level. Non-ALPA groups didn't have any skin in the game early on to get this implemented. That cost money. Money of ALPA members.
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It's as if you cannot read. The money invested is sunk money. In the past. Gone. Irrelevant.

Thank you ALPA for setting up a program for the good of the industry. Now that it is in place, all paying users are on an equal footing.
 
Here's a thought: Non ALPA members pay more

Fixed? Nah, we'll still complain.

DO you ALPA guys really want it to be ALPA only? What is your solution?
 
Meh. I guess I don't care either way if KCM was "taken" from me. I'll just go through the pre check line. Can be just as fast. And I can't be called a freeloader for using it. Or can I?
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
It's as if you cannot read. The money invested is sunk money. In the past. Gone. Irrelevant.
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Ok. Fine it's irrelevant. What about the stuff being worked on right now? Should Skywest be able to utilize the jumpseat internationally once ALPA finishes up that project? Should Southern Air benefit from the 117 rules once ALPA, IPA and IBT eventually wineed that fight?

If a VX pilot is going to get the industry average payrate (made up of rates negotiated by unionized carriers), is able to wander through a KCM checkpoint (because of the groundwork ALPA did) and then catch a jumpseat to Asia (again because of money ALPA spent) why would he ever bother wanting to join ALPA if he can get all the benefits for free?
 
BobDDuck said:
Ok. Fine it's irrelevant. What about the stuff being worked on right now? Should Skywest be able to utilize the jumpseat internationally once ALPA finishes up that project? Should Southern Air benefit from the 117 rules once ALPA, IPA and IBT eventually wineed that fight?

If a VX pilot is going to get the industry average payrate (made up of rates negotiated by unionized carriers), is able to wander through a KCM checkpoint (because of the groundwork ALPA did) and then catch a jumpseat to Asia (again because of money ALPA spent) why would he ever bother wanting to join ALPA if he can get all the benefits for free?
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Because those things are public works that ALPA is leading the charge on for the common good. Think of it as charity if that helps.

Like I said, I'm ALL FOR private hiring events, or contractual language that limits hiring to certain percentages of ALPA pilots. That alone would be a huge reason to join ALPA. I'm sure smart people could think if other means to that end.

I guess I don't see KCM or jumpseats as recruiting tools. I see them as benefits to the aviation industry. ALPA has a long history of improving the industry at large. I guess only ALPA carriers should have GPWS, FOQA or ASAP in your world?
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I guess I don't see KCM or jumpseats as recruiting tools. I see them as benefits to the aviation industry. ALPA has a long history of improving the industry at large. I guess only ALPA carriers should have GPWS, FOQA or ASAP in your world?
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I started everything I said (way back a few pages ago) by saying "non safety related" improvements. Don't go throwing that into play just to make a point. It's a weak ass move. Items of convenience (which KCM and jumpseating certainly are) maybe be should be limited to groups that actually participate in making them happen.

I think we'll just differ on this one. Maybe after you watch your dues dollars go to waste for yet another organizational drive you'll feel different. Or maybe you won't. Who knows.
 
Thank god you didn't say "We will agree to disagree, else I'd have to stab you"
 
Derg said:
Thank god you didn't say "We will agree to disagree, else I'd have to stab you"
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The killer of all of this thread is this: If KCM went through and the non ALPA carriers were not allowed to partake in the joys of skipping the security lines at numerous airports all hell would break loose. "ALPA is "elitist," ALPA doesn't care about the professional "good" for the industry, ALPA doesn't care about the other "union" carriers who are fighting the same fight..... etc." Y'all need to take a chill-freakking-pill and think about what "other" unions have done for the industry as a whole. I'm sure the list will be short and sweet. Thanks. Now lets put on our "big kid pants" and give an impartial look at what ALPA has done for OUR industry. Sorry SKW folks, sorry RAH folks, etc... you are riding on the coattails of folks who paid into something you didn't (even if you SKW folks don't "need" ALPA because you make more than ALPA carriers do). Stop taking advantage of what you didn't contribute in to.... taking something for nothing is being a freeloader. If you really think that your yearly KCM dues cover the actual cost of the program (as a whole... I certainly have and I belong to IBT 1224.) perhaps you should take a closer look at the numbers before commenting.
 
I may be mistaken, but other unions that represent pilots often pay ALPA consulting fees and hire their lawyers to do union work. ALPA is not on my list of most favored organizations when it comes to collective bargaining. However, they do an excellent job with safety and being a voice in Congress on legislative issues that effect ALL pilots, not just airline guys&gals. See you in basic safety school in February!
 
BobDDuck said:
I started everything I said (way back a few pages ago) by saying "non safety related" improvements. Don't go throwing that into play just to make a point. It's a weak ass move. Items of convenience (which KCM and jumpseating certainly are) maybe be should be limited to groups that actually participate in making them happen.

I think we'll just differ on this one. Maybe after you watch your dues dollars go to waste for yet another organizational drive you'll feel different. Or maybe you won't. Who knows.
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Well first I didn't see that post, or at least forgot it. I apologize for that, but I don't really see the difference. A systemic improvement is a systemic improvement.

Maybe ALPA should really push for ALPA only taxiways? Or ALPA only runways. I mean, The ATL has 5. Might as well make one of those puppies ALPA only.

"SkyWest 4235 expect holding for volume into Atlanta....break....Delta 10 expect ALPA 27R for expedited landing."

The FAR 117 iPhone app definitely should only be for ALPA members. But 117 itself applies to all (except cargo..which is effed up).

I pay my dues, and I don't get too fired up about how ALPA spends that money. If they try a union drive and it fails, that's a failure of ALPA in my mind. If they cannot make the case that they are better, how is that the fault of the pilot group that voted them down?

I see KCM as a huge benefit to the industry, and I'm glad it is there. If users are paying an admin fee, I'm happy. If the fee is too small, increase it, but stop whining about non-members using it.

(We could start a whole other thread on ALPA "volunteers" wasting dues money for their own personal gain. Now that DOES get my blood boiling.)
 
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General Aviation Now in Known Crewmember® (KCM)

Airlines for America (A4A), Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), along with the National Air Transportation Association (NATA), have announced that the Known Crewmember® (KCM) program will be made available to members of the air charter community. Air charter pilots, including Part 135 and Part 125, are welcomed to enroll in the expedited security screening program. Eligible aircraft operators, pilots and other crewmembers who want to participate in this program must apply for a two-year badge online through the secured NATA Compliance Services website. Please visit NATA's website for more information on how to join the program and its associated benefits for members.
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What is the downside for ALPA when this program is extended beyond their membership?
 
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