A340 Engine Shutdown

Seggy said:
No, I haven't, but I have an understanding that modern jet liners do a lot for the pilots to take care of things.
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Don't get me wrong, I would fly the piss out of a 737 given the opportunity, but I look at it, versus the current whip, and sort of scratch my head. Such switches and frobs. Such noise. Wow.
 
Seggy said:
Nope.

It won't be worth it to only do it on domestic flights from a financial perspective. That isn't even factoring in the point that doing this would require the ATC System to be updated beyond what NEXTGEN will provide and we see how that is being developed.
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Source? I mean, god only knows what we're going to see in the next 10 years - remember 10 years ago we didn't even have iPhones - now major carriers are going "paper-less" with their charts on iPads - a technology that I would have told you was like Star Trek 10 years ago. That's why I said, "a whole host of technologies have to line up."
 
ppragman said:
Source? I mean, god only knows what we're going to see in the next 10 years - remember 10 years ago we didn't even have iPhones - now major carriers are going "paper-less" with their charts on iPads - a technology that I would have told you was like Star Trek 10 years ago. That's why I said, "a whole host of technologies have to line up."
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Objection. That's evolutionary, not revolutionary. Indeed, I find the iPad and tablet computing itself to be a natural progression of what started on the desktop about 30 (!!!!!!) years ago. And significantly (expletive) overhyped and (expletive) overvalued.

Phones, yes, that's a deal - but schlepping around charts? Not a revolution like what you speak of.
 
Seggy said:
Common sense.
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Autothrust Blue said:
Objection. That's evolutionary, not revolutionary. Indeed, I find the iPad and tablet computing itself to be a natural progression of what started on the desktop about 30 (!!!!!!) years ago. And significantly (expletive) overhyped and (expletive) overvalued.

Phones, yes, that's a deal - but schlepping around charts? Not a revolution like what you speak of.
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I dunno man... I mean, we're seeing things like synthetic vision in little airplanes - I just saw an article on Avweb a few months back about a twin star a company was making "pilot optional" Diamond Twinstar... we're just at the start of it - I don't think we can really accurately forecast what's coming...
 
ppragman said:
I dunno man... I mean, we're seeing things like synthetic vision in little airplanes - I just saw an article on Avweb a few months back about a twin star a company was making "pilot optional" Diamond Twinstar... we're just at the start of it - I don't think we can really accurately forecast what's coming...
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Again, I ask, will I have to wear pants?
 
Once again we need an upgraded infrastructure WORLD WIDE in order to bring the aircraft down to even one pilot. Countries aren't going to create their own standard without a way to implement this in a standardized way WORLD WIDE.
 
Oh, BTW, at one legacy United States Airline (there may be more) there is a provision in the contract that requires at least two human pilots per flight in the cockpit (or some wording like that).

I am pretty sure that provision will be in there for A LONG time.......
 
ppragman said:
Realistically - probably not ;)
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If they let me operate the next generation from my desk with pajama pants (or no pants on), I will apply/become a believer/whatever.

I don't think it's hugely likely (I've nothing to justify this beyond a hunch, mind you), even given the diminished roles I see for humans in the future.
 
Seggy said:
Once again we need an upgraded infrastructure WORLD WIDE in order to bring the aircraft down to even one pilot. Countries aren't going to create their own standard without a way to implement this in a standardized way WORLD WIDE.
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Meh - I dunno, it'll start small, a cargo company will try to build a cargo-optional C208B is what I figure will happen first, or Amazon will get authorization to start running their delivery drones all over the place, then the technology will spread. I mean, do you know how much money UPS and FedEx make off of small packages? It's absurd. And FedEx is basically a company that had the caravan designed so they could make more money - I see it happening there first, personally.
 
Seggy said:
Oh, BTW, at one legacy United States Airline (there may be more) there is a provision in the contract that requires at least two human pilots per flight in the cockpit (or some wording like that).

I am pretty sure that provision will be in there for A LONG time.......
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Man, I'm tellin' ya - watch that "No Humans Need Apply" video, while I think I'll get a career out of aviation, I don't think my boys will be able to in the same way. I love flying, and personally am convinced that there is no amount of automation that can replace well trained pilots...but, I know for a fact that there are engineers sitting in rooms (probably at this very instant) who are trying to prove me wrong. The public will follow the cheapest tickets too.
 
Seggy said:
Oh, BTW, at one legacy United States Airline (there may be more) there is a provision in the contract that requires at least two human pilots per flight (or some wording like that).
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Meanwhile, Brand Y rolls out single pilot airplanes, and proceeds to kick Brand X's (whose PWA has this provision) ass. Brand X management (a) comes on their hands and knees to their pilot group or (b) files for Chapter 11 (more likely), places a loaded firearm on the table, and proceeds to delete said provision from the PWA.

I can think of better technical reasons to require two bodies, warm, with pulses and an Airline Transport Pilot certificate apiece, than I can labor-related reasons. "The Contract Says So™" is why my Dad rode around on a 737-200 jumpseat as the guy allowed to start the APU. They were called "GIBs," or "guys in back."

I'm not saying you're wrong about two- versus single-pilot Part 121 operations, but I'm saying that an appeal to someone's contract doesn't sway me. Or anyone else who has their eyes on the bottom line. Making a (very valid!) level-of-safety argument holds more sway than a "well, our contract says (__)" argument.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
If they let me operate the next generation from my desk with pajama pants (or no pants on), I will apply/become a believer/whatever.

I don't think it's hugely likely (I've nothing to justify this beyond a hunch, mind you), even given the diminished roles I see for humans in the future.
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I used to think the same thing...now I'm actively thinking about how I can develop a backup plan in case I'm wrong about the timeline. I figure I have 20 to 30 years before I'm fully replaceable in this line of work - I suspect utility helicopter guys have less time.
 
I agree that the technical argument will win this battle.

It is clear the infrastructure isn't there yet for single pilot operations in large transport category aircraft. Hopefully it stays that way.
 
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