The REAL value to jumping to a regional?

UAL747400 said:
What is the bolded, exactly? The conversation I had today about exactly that, is what sparked this thread. Because, it seems there's more similarities or things that are identical than not.
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I was going to type up a long response for you, but Phil pretty much already answered it in his post.

Phil Schuyler said:
Unlike Part 91 and 135 flying, where the flight crew does almost everything, Part 121 flying is very much a team effort. Pilots, Flight Attendants, Mechanics, Dispatchers, Ground Agents, etc, all have a role to play in the operation of a safe and productive flight. I submit to you airline HR staff are looking for evidence that a candidate can fit into that team. Being a current for former pilot for a 121 carrier is evidence of that.

It's not a question of your aeronautical skills. It's a question of your ability to fit into the team dynamic. While I've no doubt that you can, it sounds like your resume does not show evidence to support that. Remember, it's the Flight Ops Department who is driving this, not HR. Flight Ops tells HR "this is the kind of candidate we're looking for, send us people like this." HR simply screens the applications and submits to Flight Ops candidates who are most likely to meet their needs.

There is a second component to this. Another post in this thread made mention of part 121 requiring "almost no customer service" compared to Part 135. I wholeheartedly disagree with that point of view, but it does raise a good point. You appear to have little or no "passenger service" experience. As a cargo aircraft pilot you may have customer service experience (shippers, receivers, etc), but you have no "passenger service" experience. See the difference? I think it's fair to say passenger airlines want pilots who will be alert and responsive to passenger concerns.

There you go; the problem defined. Now go solve it.
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z987k said:
I meant compared to 135 pax. In that regard a 121 pax pilot is way closer to a box hauler than a charter pilot customer service wise.
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Not at all. If you treat your 121 passengers like you would a box, you are going to have problems at any 121 airline and BIG problems at one of the ones that actually tries to treat their passengers well.
 
BobDDuck said:
I was going to type up a long response for you, but Phil pretty much already answered it in his post.






Not at all. If you treat your 121 passengers like you would a box, you are going to have problems at any 121 airline and BIG problems at one of the ones that actually tries to treat their passengers well.
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I'm not saying you treat them like a box. I went back and edited a bit to try and clarify that. I was just refuting his claim that 121 has more customer service than 135 pax.. well most 135 pax I would imagine. 135 has quite the range.
 
Phil Schuyler said:
Unlike Part 91 and 135 flying, where the flight crew does almost everything, Part 121 flying is very much a team effort. Pilots, Flight Attendants, Mechanics, Dispatchers, Ground Agents, etc, all have a role to play in the operation of a safe and productive flight. I submit to you airline HR staff are looking for evidence that a candidate can fit into that team. Being a current for former pilot for a 121 carrier is evidence of that.
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And military guys are't that? You have to fit into a squadron, make the culture work, not be that guy with the mx shop, work with the chiefs on down to calling up a Tanker shop and setting up a time/track to AR in, and calling up center to notam the track/anchor out. In the legacy Herk world there is a minimum of 4 guys on mic, normally it's closer to 6. If you're in a fighter you fly nothing but formation and either need to lead as flight lead or work in the formation as wing. You still need to be able to stand up in front of an entire auditorium as a mission commander and give a brief on the mission that you planned/approved, taking spears and all. I fly 121 as well, and of course there's pressure to get off the gate in time, I've also had the pressure of being ready to go at check in time and having the formation set takeoff power right at the planned takeoff time. I'm not sure how that doesn't involve some pretty high level teamwork. Of course 121 time is very valuable, but you can not tell me that an F whatever pilot can not be trained to those standards without first visiting a regional.
 
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BobDDuck said:
I was going to type up a long response for you, but Phil pretty much already answered it in his post.






Not at all. If you treat your 121 passengers like you would a box, you are going to have problems at any 121 airline and BIG problems at one of the ones that actually tries to treat their passengers well.
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And which one would that be? I sure haven't found a domestic one that does.
 
Soku39 said:
Of course 121 time is very valuable, but you can not tell me that an F whatever pilot can not be trained to those standards without first visiting a regional.
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Of course they can...the question is if HR folks sitting on an interview board think that, too, since they're the ones holding the keys to the kingdom.

Sometimes that answer is yes, and sometimes that answer is no. For the most part, ex-military guys with competitive times don't "need" to go to regionals first, but for folks with lesser quals/time or lack or recency, a trip to the regionals is key to later getting on the with the majors.
 
Hacker15e said:
Of course they can...the question is if HR folks sitting on an interview board think that, too, since they're the ones holding the keys to the kingdom.

Sometimes that answer is yes, and sometimes that answer is no. For the most part, ex-military guys with competitive times don't "need" to go to regionals first, but for folks with lesser quals/time or lack or recency, a trip to the regionals is key to later getting on the with the majors.
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I honestly think you're selling yourself short. There's nothing you won't learn on IOE in a couple of hours that you NEED. The rest will be picked up in time. It's not like they're hiring street captains.
 
unclassified said:
And which one would that be? I sure haven't found a domestic one that does.
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amorris311 said:
I'd say from my personal experiences that Hawaiian and Alaska do a great job with their customers.
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I know guys have gotten talked to (informally) at both those places plus VX, B6 and Delta, for not stepping up customer service when it was needed. Also, I'd guess Southwest has a similar deal.
 
Hacker15e said:
Of course they can...the question is if HR folks sitting on an interview board think that, too, since they're the ones holding the keys to the kingdom.

Sometimes that answer is yes, and sometimes that answer is no. For the most part, ex-military guys with competitive times don't "need" to go to regionals first, but for folks with lesser quals/time or lack or recency, a trip to the regionals is key to later getting on the with the majors.
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I guess man, it just cracks me up when civ guys say a mil dude can't do x without having a clue what we actually do every day. Especially what we do considering how infrequently we fly. I fly a Herk almost never compared to the RJ, and that's the hours program speaking, definitely not my choice. I might get some spears thrown at me for this but;
Maybe Delta realizes this and that's why they are more military friendly? Apparently US Airways has outsourced their pilot hiring to a 3rd party vendor that may or may not actually know what to look for in an aviator, this irks me. I would add that finding any job, no matter what the industry, in 2014 with facebook/linked in etc etc seems to be much more of a 3 ring circus than it was in the 90s or at any time prior. I.e. the classic walk in, in a suit and tie with your resume ready to go and drop off, all to make a good impression, then being told to go home and fill out the online application. I honestly do not understand who these people are looking for, non aviation jobs included as a draw parallels from myself and my friends in other careers.
 
Just take the interview agreement and just build your 121 time at Allegiant. First year is gonna suck any where. Just as well fly the mad dog instead of RJ.
 
Soku39 said:
And military guys are't that? You have to fit into a squadron, make the culture work, not be that guy with the mx shop, work with the chiefs on down to calling up a Tanker shop and setting up a time/track to AR in, and calling up center to notam the track/anchor out. In the legacy Herk world there is a minimum of 4 guys on mic, normally it's closer to 6. If you're in a fighter you fly nothing but formation and either need to lead as flight lead or work in the formation as wing. You still need to be able to stand up in front of an entire auditorium as a mission commander and give a brief on the mission that you planned/approved, taking spears and all. I fly 121 as well, and of course there's pressure to get off the gate in time, I've also had the pressure of being ready to go at check in time and having the formation set takeoff power right at the planned takeoff time. I'm not sure how that doesn't involve some pretty high level teamwork. Of course 121 time is very valuable, but you can not tell me that an F whatever pilot can not be trained to those standards without first visiting a regional.
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Military pilot to airline pilot hiring is a worthy topic of discussion, but that is not THIS discussion. I said nothing about military pilots. I simply said that, in order to be successful, airline pilots need to be able to work as part of a team.
 
Phil Schuyler said:
Military pilot to airline pilot hiring is a worthy topic of discussion, but that is not THIS discussion. I said nothing about military pilots. I simply said that, in order to be successful, airline pilots need to be able to work as part of a team.
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Right I guess my point, in short, is that anyone who was a military pilot, single seat, helos, tac world, strat world, bombers etc is required to, and needed to be part of a team to get the mission done, that was my hang up.

It might not be gate agents, mx control, dispatch, crew scheduling or the flight attendants, but mil dudes definitely have to have people skills, cooperation skills, and the maturity to realize that they are one piece of a puzzle in an operation to be successful. Same as airline pilot.
 
BobDDuck said:
Not at all. If you treat your 121 passengers like you would a box, you are going to have problems at any 121 airline and BIG problems at one of the ones that actually tries to treat their passengers well.
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This is true.

The sun rises and sets over the "High Value Customer" on Virginia Avenue. If one is just happy flying jets and sitting in the cockpit as the operation crumbles with the "Not my job, man" attitude, you're not going to have a good time.

Good customer service is awarded and when you stack up good letters, there's no better "Get Out of Jail Free" card. Ask me next month!
 
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