Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
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The REAL value to jumping to a regional?
- Thread starter Tommay85
- Start date
unclassified
Active Member
We've got lots of both light and dark grey guys at my shop. You'll do fine. Bud of mine came here directly from a pre-retirement punishment tour at an AETC tech school base, which had no flying activities at all.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Yeah, pretty much where I am, very much involuntarily.
I've looked at all manner of other ways to get around it, including trying to find a part-time job that involves multi turbine time (like flying jumpers in a King Air, etc) that I could work around my full time AF job.
Unfortunately, I've had a pretty tough year in terms of deployments -- was gone during May-July, and will be leaving again October-January, so that makes it very difficult to get a civilian flying job.
I know I have competitive quals at the big ACMIs and majors, but I just have to get over the currency/recency bar in the short term to get there.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
As you probably already know, the lack of attention of a recruiting department is not necessarily a judgment on your flying abilities, at all.
Indeed, unless you've busted a bunch of rides, you won't find a single thing about ability on an application.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Fortunately, I have not busted a bunch of rides (although I do have a minor skeleton in the closet that several folks on JC know about), but I'm acutely aware that my lack of currency/recency given the current applicant pool means that I'm not a bright and shiny penny that majors will be fighting over each other to hire.
I'm prepared to slog it out, apply everywhere, study up and prep for interviews, and do my time to get to where I want to eventually be. This is a chess game, not a checkers game. I didn't get through a 20-year military career by expecting instant gratification.
unclassified
Active Member
If you have your civilian ratings, bite the bullet and go find a multi engine to rent so that you can maintain currency.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
Excellent. If I can do anything, let me know.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Yep, ATP-ME and SE. I'm doing some CFII'ing to stay baseline current and instrument current.
Given that renting a twin out in my neck of the woods is about $300/hour, I think I'll pass on paying $30K to get 100 hours of recency in that. That's more than the "pay cut" that I'll take working at a regional for a year instead of going right to a major.
SouthernJets loves fresh out of the military pilots.
But I will say that prior 121 experience does come in handy. Handy, but I don't believe completely necessary.
The captains in my 320 school were clearly experienced 121, but two of the FO's were former military and two were former regional guys. The former regionals needed some brush up on operations and had the whole CRM thing down really well.
The two former military single-seat fighter guys were awesome people, got a little too focused on test scores and gouge, but that was the world they were coming from. Hyper-competitive, "that button released ordinance, that's a PTT?" and needed lots of work on CRM and "COM2 for pushback? What?!" but those are all things that you can work with someone on and they knew to ask.
The challenge in flight training isn't as much finding the 'cut and paste' student, it's really understanding how to bridge each individual student with respect to his background, throw it all in the kiln and with some blood and sweat, it should produce a nicely minted new SouthernJetter who will perform solidly.
I'm a personality guy. I don't give a poop that you flew the CRJ-900 in a knife-edge with the autothrottles off with the passengers barely noticing or if you flew 100 sorties over Macho Grande, delivered ordinance on-time and save a school bus full of special children by doing so, I really want my employer to find the right personalities, the right work ethics, the right attitudes and hopefully our training department and corporate culture during his/her freshman year will take it from there.
But I will say that prior 121 experience does come in handy. Handy, but I don't believe completely necessary.
The captains in my 320 school were clearly experienced 121, but two of the FO's were former military and two were former regional guys. The former regionals needed some brush up on operations and had the whole CRM thing down really well.
The two former military single-seat fighter guys were awesome people, got a little too focused on test scores and gouge, but that was the world they were coming from. Hyper-competitive, "that button released ordinance, that's a PTT?" and needed lots of work on CRM and "COM2 for pushback? What?!" but those are all things that you can work with someone on and they knew to ask.
The challenge in flight training isn't as much finding the 'cut and paste' student, it's really understanding how to bridge each individual student with respect to his background, throw it all in the kiln and with some blood and sweat, it should produce a nicely minted new SouthernJetter who will perform solidly.
I'm a personality guy. I don't give a poop that you flew the CRJ-900 in a knife-edge with the autothrottles off with the passengers barely noticing or if you flew 100 sorties over Macho Grande, delivered ordinance on-time and save a school bus full of special children by doing so, I really want my employer to find the right personalities, the right work ethics, the right attitudes and hopefully our training department and corporate culture during his/her freshman year will take it from there.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I feel fortunate that my last flying assignment was in a two-pilot, non-fighter aircraft. I gained a lot of wisdom and insight about that type of crew operations in that job which I feel will help me not be "that fighter guy" at an airline interview or training program.
Then again, my personality may just be the turn-off.
Then again, my personality may just be the turn-off.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Just don't be the stereotypical zoomie and you'll be fine @Hacker15e - and you don't strike me as the kind of guy who'll say "well in the F15 we did it this way," every three to five minutes. Come fly medevac when you get done, from the looks of this place so far, it's going to be pretty awesome. You have a family and stuff don't you? Medevac is the way to go!
Although to be fair, I often battle with the whole, "well at my old job," or "well in Alaska, I" within myself.
Although to be fair, I often battle with the whole, "well at my old job," or "well in Alaska, I" within myself.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
Lesson 1: Nobody gives a crap how you did it:
- in the Air Force
- at American Eagle
- at Western
- (etc.)
unclassified
Active Member
I feel fortunate that my last flying assignment was in a two-pilot, non-fighter aircraft. I gained a lot of wisdom and insight about that type of crew operations in that job which I feel will help me not be "that fighter guy" at an airline interview or training program.
Then again, my personality may just be the turn-off.
You can't be any worse than the recently retired O6, former SAC B-52 Wing CC I had to fly with years ago! Talk about someone who didn't like being a subordinate.....
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Man, I just love hearing about dudes like that...guys who can't let go of the fact that when they leave the military, nobody gives a rat's behind what they used to be.
I have an acquaintance who left the AF right after his initial hitch was up, and was hired at a then-new LCC. He had a quick upgrade to Capt because of the company's expansion, and a few years later in the right seat he had his own, previous USAF Wing Commander as his shiny new F/O!
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
One of my classmates at Eagle (!) was a B-52 guy. Super cool, rock solid, awesome late-40s, early-50s guy. I'm sure he was a blast to fly with.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
What do you mean I can't just launch?
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Almost every former military pilot I've ever worked with. If you can try to not be that guy, I'll do my damndest to not talk bush-flying. I mean, man, I'd love to go fly a F14/F15/F16/F-AnyTeen... but especially in the guys who've been out for like 10 or 15 years...yeah... it's like the guy who is super proud of being captain of the football time in high school..
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
I think that guy was carrying a big box out to my car at Fry's the other day, actually.
Phil Schuyler
Well-Known Member
Is there any?
To preface, I'm not trying to start a fight or a *this pilot's background vs this pilot's background*. You're all the same after 4000 hours anyways...
Say someone with 2 types and getting crew time occasionally in both seats on a turbo-prop, single pilot in the other plane. Getting paid 60k, 75k soon. 135 cargo.
Is there anything really valuable to jumping to a regional or crappy ACMI carrier to "check the box"? To go further, to fly a part 25 jet or civilian jet in general? I'm seeing two major flaws in the opinions of the latter, but we can discuss.
I'm not talking networking opportunities or going somewhere to get contacts. I'm talking practical application of the experience. Is there a pay incentive as an FO only at a regional that I'm missing vs the above?
Yes, this is a "I know a guy thread"...
@z987k @Jfk-Pilot @SA227driver @Avalon781ML @Inverted
Unlike Part 91 and 135 flying, where the flight crew does almost everything, Part 121 flying is very much a team effort. Pilots, Flight Attendants, Mechanics, Dispatchers, Ground Agents, etc, all have a role to play in the operation of a safe and productive flight. I submit to you airline HR staff are looking for evidence that a candidate can fit into that team. Being a current for former pilot for a 121 carrier is evidence of that.
It's not a question of your aeronautical skills. It's a question of your ability to fit into the team dynamic. While I've no doubt that you can, it sounds like your resume does not show evidence to support that. Remember, it's the Flight Ops Department who is driving this, not HR. Flight Ops tells HR "this is the kind of candidate we're looking for, send us people like this." HR simply screens the applications and submits to Flight Ops candidates who are most likely to meet their needs.
There is a second component to this. Another post in this thread made mention of part 121 requiring "almost no customer service" compared to Part 135. I wholeheartedly disagree with that point of view, but it does raise a good point. You appear to have little or no "passenger service" experience. As a cargo aircraft pilot you may have customer service experience (shippers, receivers, etc), but you have no "passenger service" experience. See the difference? I think it's fair to say passenger airlines want pilots who will be alert and responsive to passenger concerns.
There you go; the problem defined. Now go solve it.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I meant compared to 135 pax. In that regard a 121 pax pilot is way closer to a box hauler than a charter pilot customer service wise. Even in medevac I did about 6 billion times more customer service than as a 121 pilot. Maybe the difference is that I could actually make a difference then. I could go in the FBO or drive over to a place that sells food and cater it myself if whoever hasn't shown and it's 15 till departure, or if the guys wouldn't marshal me out, just go pull the chocks and drive away. Make things happen. Make sure people got where they were going, and on time.
Now all I can do is continuously call the contractor that does X, and apologize and try to make the pax happy.
If as a 135 pilot I ever delivered the level of customer service that the two airlines we fly for offer, I'd expect to be fired the next day.
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