Is it wrong to go to the limits of a rule?

Derg said:
Eh, it's legal. You never know why he got it or why he wants rid of it.

I've thrown in some generic "open time requests", got something unsavory and immediately put in a drop request for the trip.
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I think we've all done the "holy crap that trip is AWESOME!" pickup. And then 5 minutes later it's "Honey I told you we are going to see my family that weekend."
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
There are groups of people who all have Flica alerts and sit around in crash pads scarfing up literally ALL of the open time. If they want the trip, they keep it. But if they don't they all up the other members of the cartel and see if they want it. If they do, they set up a swap. If nobody wants it they put it on the trade board or PTO it. If they can't get rid of it they normally just call in sick for it, and it goes to a reserve.

The cartels generate a lot of hatred, and for good reason. It's against the rules to have other peoples Flica logins, but they do that too sometimes.

I think people are upset about the main topic above because it is similar to cartel behavior, but as long as it isn't there's no real proem with it, I think.
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The America West guys have cartels like this too and I hear guys moan and groan on the jumpseat about it. It sounds like abusing the system and hopefully the company or union can police it better.
 
Cartels are rampant at SWA. They piss off a lot of pilots, but they really infuriate the company. I expect their new contract to include some changes to neuter the cartels.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I think we've all done the "holy crap that trip is AWESOME!" pickup. And then 5 minutes later it's "Honey I told you we are going to see my family that weekend."
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Or work work work to get a decent commutable trip and it's then "WAT?! I was planning on coming on that 6 hour airport layover in Monroe, LA! Why don't you communicate!" :)
 
We had something at Southerjets called "trip parking". Normal open time pickups are restricted by a cap, but pilot to pilot swaps are not. So you'd find something in open time that works, find someone with a hole in their schedule, do a PtP swap with one of your other trips (which would drop you below the cap), pick up the trip out of open time, then swap your trip back from your buddy. Instant over-the-cap schedule adjustment. Under this system, PtP straight drops (where you just dump a trip into swap board for pickup) are like gold, because the cap doesn't apply to PtP swaps. Back during the merger trauma, I had people call me after doing a straight drop into open time (permitted, assuming reserve coverage), and holler at me because they could have had the trip over the cap. Seriously...people who don't know me from Adam, called and squawked at me for how I adjusted MY schedule.

Soooo....anyway...it became pretty high profile, and during that time, here are the conversations I've had with people:

"Circumvents the intent of the contract"
"But with the pay cuts, I need to feed my family"
"Abrogates seniority"
"It's legal, tough turnips" (yup, that's the actual word used)
"With the type of trips on XYZ airplane, its the only way to make over X"*
* means I got this one multiple times, and generally X was > 90 hours
"Pilots A, B & C are running these trips in a circle. Open time never filters down"

You're the rep. What do you do?

A) Put in further restrictions, certain to earn you the ire of those who like it
B) Don't restrict it, and continue to get hammered by people pissed at it.
C) Don't think about it, but collect your flight pay loss for going to the MEC meeting anyway, because you have good hair and look good in a picture.

Richman
 
Richman said:
You're the rep. What do you do?

A) Put in further restrictions, certain to earn you the ire of those who like it
B) Don't restrict it, and continue to get hammered by people pissed at it.
C) Don't think about it, but collect your flight pay loss for going to the MEC meeting anyway, because you have good hair and look good in a picture.

Richman
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Hah... if you worked for a COOL union it would be an oil portrait that you look good in and not just a picture!

And this is why I don't ever want to be a rep. I took/take enough crap from guys in the committee positions I've held. I don't need the added fun.
 
Richman said:
We had something at Southerjets called "trip parking". Normal open time pickups are restricted by a cap, but pilot to pilot swaps are not. So you'd find something in open time that works, find someone with a hole in their schedule, do a PtP swap with one of your other trips (which would drop you below the cap), pick up the trip out of open time, then swap your trip back from your buddy. Instant over-the-cap schedule adjustment. Under this system, PtP straight drops (where you just dump a trip into swap board for pickup) are like gold, because the cap doesn't apply to PtP swaps. Back during the merger trauma, I had people call me after doing a straight drop into open time (permitted, assuming reserve coverage), and holler at me because they could have had the trip over the cap. Seriously...people who don't know me from Adam, called and squawked at me for how I adjusted MY schedule.

Soooo....anyway...it became pretty high profile, and during that time, here are the conversations I've had with people:

"Circumvents the intent of the contract"
"But with the pay cuts, I need to feed my family"
"Abrogates seniority"
"It's legal, tough turnips" (yup, that's the actual word used)
"With the type of trips on XYZ airplane, its the only way to make over X"*
* means I got this one multiple times, and generally X was > 90 hours
"Pilots A, B & C are running these trips in a circle. Open time never filters down"

You're the rep. What do you do?

A) Put in further restrictions, certain to earn you the ire of those who like it
B) Don't restrict it, and continue to get hammered by people pissed at it.
C) Don't think about it, but collect your flight pay loss for going to the MEC meeting anyway, because you have good hair and look good in a picture.

Richman
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"That's why you Union reps make so much money."

I think you forgot that one, or maybe your guys don't pull that card.
 
First, take EVERYTHING on BluePilots with a grain of salt. 85% of the guys are bitter at the world and on their third divorce. They still hate US Airways, and are CERTAIN the company is dead set on screwing us in the most ingenious way possible. If the guy is FLL based, it goes double. I've heard of less paranoid people in mental institutions, and a couple guys are one bad day from being sent to Arkham Asylum. Another 13% of the guys on there are trolls or just trying to get the other 85% to stroke out since they're senior to them. The remaining 2% are guys that are level headed and willing to post facts. They never post anymore because facts have no place on that board.

All that being said, dick move or not, the OP on that thread was butt hurt because he didn't get to FLiCA fast enough to pick up the trip. That's what started the whole thing. Sorry, man. It's called "first come, first serve" for a reason, and when it's automated, you're limited on who to point fingers at, I guess.
 
Seriously. As bad as Airlinkpilots got in the thick of negotiations in the middle of the "last best and final offer," when senior/junior guys were at each other's throats over the bonus distribution on TA1 and anything else.....BP is FAR, FAR worse. APC is puppies and kittens compared to it. Hell, that other one that charges and rhymes with Might Info.com is probably more welcoming.
 
kellwolf said:
Seriously. As bad as Airlinkpilots got in the thick of negotiations in the middle of the "last best and final offer," when senior/junior guys were at each other's throats over the bonus distribution on TA1 and anything else.....BP is FAR, FAR worse. APC is puppies and kittens compared to it. Hell, that other one that charges and rhymes with Might Info.com is probably more welcoming.
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I can't find it at present, but there's a great video that is something along the lines of "Everything I need to know I learned from FlightInfo."
 
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