PA-46 Malibu Down in Erie, CO KEIK - 3 Dead, 2 Injured

[fholbert]

Umm, maybe a bit judgmental, but how in the heck do you crash on a plain ol go around?

From this story: http://www.faribaultcountyregister....ne-crash-north-of-Denver.html?isap=1&nav=5051

Jan Culver told the newspaper she was with a friend in a pasture near the airport when she heard the plane and saw it flying "really, really low."


"We heard it sputtering," she said. "Then there was no sound. We knew it was a crash."


She saw a small cloud of dust as the plane crashed and, because she has some medical knowledge, went to the scene to help, Culver said.

- See more at: http://www.faribaultcountyregister....ver.html?isap=1&nav=5051#sthash.7qRHZd7c.dpuf

 

[A150K]

Umm, maybe a bit judgmental, but how in the heck do you crash on a plain ol go around?

Judging by some of the go around performance I've seen on checkouts and flight reviews I've given, very easily...But, you'd think someone flying a Malibu would be a bit more proficient than the average weekend warrior, so maybe there's more to the story.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Umm, maybe a bit judgmental, but how in the heck do you crash on a plain ol go around?

How often do you ever go around at low altitude fully configured?

 

[Roger Roger]

How often do you ever go around at low altitude fully configured?

Bout once a year, and I've managed not to stall spin on any of them. But it's not rocket surgery. Plus if the account we read above is true and he was going around from 400' that's not exactly low level. One other possibility if the part about the engine sputtering is true (which it seems like anytime there is an accident the engine is heard sputtering so I'm not putting tooooo much weight on that) it's possible he shoved the mixture full rich for the go around and drowned the engine.

 

[Roger Roger]

You'd be surprised...
If you are in or close to the flare and realize traffic is taking of ahead. You might not reach safe climb speed and stall

Yeah, if you totally botch the procedure.

 

[auw2fly]

But, you'd think someone flying a Malibu would be a bit more proficient than the average weekend warrior, so maybe there's more to the story.

You'd be surprised...

 

[A150K]

You'd be surprised...

You're probably right, but you have to admit that the insurance driven recurrent training most Malibu drivers have to go through every year is quite a bit more recurrent training than the average joe receives (which is none going by what I observe).

 

[Johnny Beau Bekkestad]

Yet, almost 80% of the accidents happen in either takeoff or landing configuration

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Bout once a year, and I've managed not to stall spin on any of them. But it's not rocket surgery. Plus if the account we read above is true and he was going around from 400' that's not exactly low level. One other possibility if the part about the engine sputtering is true (which it seems like anytime there is an accident the engine is heard sputtering so I'm not putting tooooo much weight on that) it's possible he shoved the mixture full rich for the go around and drowned the engine.

Flying in general isn't very hard, but people still manage to kill themselves. If I am a weekend warrior, flying 100 hours or less a year, then I could see how I could easily get into that situation.

 

[fholbert]

Another go-around this weekend, 1 dead.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/09/pilot-involved-in-crawford-bay-plane.html

 

[Ron Allen]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. The pilot that wrote the message said he was departing 15, and the accident aircraft was approaching 33 despite winds and announced traffic pattern. Then apparently the accident ac realized their mistake, attempted a go around, and crashed.

I was taught that a/c on final approach have the right of way. Who determines the traffic pattern at an uncontrolled field?

 

[Ron Allen]

Another go-around this weekend, 1 dead.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/09/pilot-involved-in-crawford-bay-plane.html

Go-Arounds will get you killed on the street.

 

[tomokc]

I was taught that a/c on final approach have the right of way. Who determines the traffic pattern at an uncontrolled field?

Ron, I'm not sure I was taught "rules of the road" for this, but when I've seen conflicting traffic I've gotten the heck out of the way. We'll sort it out on the ground later if need be, but in the air - I'm taking whatever action is necessary to not swap paint. And standard pattern is LEFT traffic - you should know that.

Things like this must keep regional pilots up at night. Operating into/out of uncontrolled airports on a beautiful, light wind day with a herd of pilots who haven't flown in six months, half of whom aren't using the radio. Yeesh!

 

[Ron Allen]

Ron, I'm not sure I was taught "rules of the road" for this, but when I've seen conflicting traffic I've gotten the heck out of the way. We'll sort it out on the ground later if need be, but in the air - I'm taking whatever action is necessary to not swap paint. And standard pattern is LEFT traffic - you should know that.

Things like this must keep regional pilots up at night. Operating into/out of uncontrolled airports on a beautiful, light wind day with a herd of pilots who haven't flown in six months, half of whom aren't using the radio. Yeesh!

How do you know the guy wasn't flying the proper traffic pattern for the other runway?

 

[jtrain609]

Bout once a year, and I've managed not to stall spin on any of them. But it's not rocket surgery. Plus if the account we read above is true and he was going around from 400' that's not exactly low level. One other possibility if the part about the engine sputtering is true (which it seems like anytime there is an accident the engine is heard sputtering so I'm not putting tooooo much weight on that) it's possible he shoved the mixture full rich for the go around and drowned the engine.

Or if he didn't move the mixture up at all and still had it leaned out, and opened the throttle all the way.

TIO-540's aren't simple engines to manage.

 

[tomokc]

How do you know the guy wasn't flying the proper traffic pattern for the other runway?

I didn't say anything about this airport's traffic pattern, nor what pilots were doing. I was responding to your question, "Who determines the traffic pattern at an uncontrolled field?"

Edit: Based upon descriptions posted previously in this thread, it appears that the accident aircraft arrived without announcing location or intentions, and apparently not listening to CTAF. He was not observed entering the traffic pattern, but instead apparently attempted to land straight-in RWY 33. KAPA is SE of KEIK, and that would make a straight-in landing convenient. Not smart, not safe and not expected by other aircraft, but convenient to the arriving aircraft.

 

[Ron Allen]

I didn't say anything about this airport's traffic pattern, nor what pilots were doing. I was responding to your question, "Who determines the traffic pattern at an uncontrolled field?"

The PIC determines his own traffic pattern at an uncontrolled airport.

 

[Plata]

The PIC determines his own traffic pattern at an uncontrolled airport.

Double check your FARs.

 

[tomokc]

The PIC determines his own traffic pattern at an uncontrolled airport.

Mind sharing with us who told you that? And who told you that an aircraft on final has the right of way?

 

[A Life Aloft]

The PIC determines his own traffic pattern at an uncontrolled airport.

And what does being the PIC mean to you exactly? Certainly would you include common sense, using your best judgement, following procedures, situational awareness and doing what is safe?

To land safety in a non-towered environment you rely on predictability. That’s why patterns exist in the first place. At an uncontrolled field that has little to no traffic on a regular basis, there should be little problem with going straight in or other non standard approaches provided you announce your intentions and relay continual position reports and there is no conflicting traffic in the pattern or on the field. Period. Under a busier environment, the standard pattern should be adhered to at all times in addition to announcing your position in an effort to maintain a safe and smooth flow of traffic.

You should also tune in the published radio frequency of the airport and determine which course of action to take dependent upon the level of activity you hear on the frequency. By listening and looking for the number of airplanes you see approaching and departing, your good judgement should dictate whether or not a non standard approach would be acceptable. And, if flying the pattern you should check that final is clear before turning from the base leg. This is basic airmanship.

Being a PIC means doing what is sensible, safe and correct. It doesn't mean doing whatever you want to/feel like with no consideration of other variable factors or the traffic around you and it doesn't mean breaking the rules for your own personal desires or making foolish choices. Control means you know exactly what you are doing and what the circumstances and traffic around you is, including on the ground. Every situation and every landing is different. Know your environment and choose based on that environment. Doing the unexpected, not communicating, not planning, not being aware (SA), making bad decisions and not following procedures at some point, is not going to end well for you and possibly others.