Looking for reserve/guard advice.

Andrew_Neal

Andrew_Neal

Well-Known Member
Morning gents,

I'll be exiting the Marines after 5 years of AD this upcoming year.. I'll be enlisting in the ANG or AFR to maintain involvement in the military, maintain TriCare eligibility for my family, and frankly to just focus on finishing college and doing something more fitting to who I am.

I got lucky with my MOS in the Marines, I ended up not minding it because of my passion for traveling and aviation - but saw a lot of people end up with jobs they hate, my goal here is to avoid going in for an MOS that I'm going to hate, even if it is only going to be part time.

I'll preface more of this by stating I eventually want to go for a UPT spot, but I'm still in school. In the mean time.. I'm looking for something that allows me to be airborne, often, and also allows me to travel. Seems like being a crew chief, boom operator, flight engineer, or something along those lines would be best - but from doing my own research and reading through some threads on this site there seems to be a lot of debate about which one is the most enjoyable. For example; I would love to end up on C17's or C130's, but not if C5's are the guys who get to go to all the cool places. Or another example; I would love to be a loadmaster, but not if they're the ones who are always catching flak from the FE's. I know semantics such as this are things you only find out when you've been there and done that, but I'm trying to get a heads up from somebody who may be able to provide some insight -- I'll be damned if I'm going to sign another contract without knowing what I'm getting into; been there & done that.

Any help or gouge is greatly appreciated!
 
Hey Andrew. Good to see you on here again. I'm still on the road but haven't forgotten I owe you an email.

My AF experience is that boom operators, AWACS/JSTARS aircrew/maintainers, and airborne maintenance techs do the most flying. Not as many flying crew chiefs. Loadmasters are really flying just to load/unload the aircraft and aren't always fully integrated with the aircrew (loadmasters are a transportation AFSC, not a career enlisted aviator position). FEs are really shrinking except for the rotary wing folks, however on the fixed wing side, your integral to flight deck ops.

Knowing what your goal is, I would try the FE route, but be sure to see going that route will affect your UPT options due to the training commitment.
 
TC_ABM said:
Loadmasters are really flying just to load/unload the aircraft and aren't always fully integrated with the aircrew (loadmasters are a transportation AFSC, not a career enlisted aviator position).
Click to expand...

Not true at all regarding the C-130.

The loadmaster is a required crewmember and absolutely vital to everything we do in the Herk, and is a career aviation field. He is just as important as the pilots, nav, and engineer- there is NO rank on our airplane. Your knowledge can/will save lives, and the whole crew will respect that. If you like getting dirty and want to travel the world, loadmaster is a great place to start.

The FE position does require a much higher bar for education- the school is much more difficult, because you have to be the systems and performance expert on the aircraft, above every other crew position. Great place if you've got a maintenance/aviation background.

Personally, I'd always advice becoming a FE/LM before any ground role (crew chiefs/mx).

That being said, if you want to go to UPT, make finishing college your priority above all else. You will not go to UPT once you turn 30, regardless of your history.

I'd recommend, in order of "ease of getting a slot"-
A) join the Guard/Reserve unit you want to eventually fly for as an enlisted flyer (FE/LM)
B) leave entirely, go to college, apply to OTS and UPT
C) go to college, enroll in ROTC and apply for UPT
 
NewYorkophile said:
Not true at all regarding the C-130.

I'd recommend, in order of "ease of getting a slot"-
A) join the Guard/Reserve unit you want to eventually fly for as an enlisted flyer (FE/LM)
B) leave entirely, go to college, apply to OTS and UPT
C) go to college, enroll in ROTC and apply for UPT
Click to expand...

Glad to hear this about the LMs on the Herk. I had a prior service LM turned rated Capt that had a vastly difference experience.
 
Prior jar head here. 7051 Crash crew. I joined the ANG as a crew chief on C-130s. The technical training was six months alone then you spend all that time in upgrade training. However we could go with the plane pretty much when ever it hit the road. There was no dedicated flying crew chief program where I was. If you were a 5 or 7 level crew chief, you could fly with aircraft as frequently as you would like.

I completed my enlistment with the ANG and moved over to the AF-R. I should start down the pipeline for flight engineer on the C-5 in the next month or so. However to get to this point has been long and frustrating. 18 months to get my flight phyiscal and I'll spend 20 months in training before I am a mission qualified FE.

Not sure if your age is a factor, but the Air Force processes take forever. As stated above go for "ease of getting in." Maybe your MOS will transfer over to an Air Force AFSC so you can get "in". Finish college and apply for your UPT position.
 
TC_ABM said:
Hey Andrew. Good to see you on here again. I'm still on the road but haven't forgotten I owe you an email.

My AF experience is that boom operators, AWACS/JSTARS aircrew/maintainers, and airborne maintenance techs do the most flying. Not as many flying crew chiefs. Loadmasters are really flying just to load/unload the aircraft and aren't always fully integrated with the aircrew (loadmasters are a transportation AFSC, not a career enlisted aviator position). FEs are really shrinking except for the rotary wing folks, however on the fixed wing side, your integral to flight deck ops.

Knowing what your goal is, I would try the FE route, but be sure to see going that route will affect your UPT options due to the training commitment.
Click to expand...

Hey! No rush, this is why I started researching and planning early - plenty of time for planning. From reading about the training that being a FE requires, it seems like I would be better suited for a loadmaster position with the slight time crunch I would have - although the FE job seems like it would fit me more. At the same time I really just want my sole job to be... being in the air. There is a unit in my hometown flying the JSTARS, maybe this would be something to think about? Would I be focused more on the flying aspect or would I be starring at a blank countermeasures screen while flying around? I'll have to do some research.

NewYorkophile said:
Not true at all regarding the C-130.

The loadmaster is a required crewmember and absolutely vital to everything we do in the Herk, and is a career aviation field. He is just as important as the pilots, nav, and engineer- there is NO rank on our airplane. Your knowledge can/will save lives, and the whole crew will respect that. If you like getting dirty and want to travel the world, loadmaster is a great place to start.

The FE position does require a much higher bar for education- the school is much more difficult, because you have to be the systems and performance expert on the aircraft, above every other crew position. Great place if you've got a maintenance/aviation background.

Personally, I'd always advice becoming a FE/LM before any ground role (crew chiefs/mx).

That being said, if you want to go to UPT, make finishing college your priority above all else. You will not go to UPT once you turn 30, regardless of your history.

I'd recommend, in order of "ease of getting a slot"-
A) join the Guard/Reserve unit you want to eventually fly for as an enlisted flyer (FE/LM)
B) leave entirely, go to college, apply to OTS and UPT
C) go to college, enroll in ROTC and apply for UPT
Click to expand...

I'm 22 at the moment with an October birthday, so I'll be 23 upon leaving the Marines. I'm currently a sophomore in college, about 2.5 years worth of school left. I want to leave some wiggle room just in case I don't get selected on the first go around for UPT. That said I should probably just try and get into the airlift unit that I want to eventually fly with and then pick whatever has the shortest school. LM I'm presuming.

Hawks said:
Prior jar head here. 7051 Crash crew. I joined the ANG as a crew chief on C-130s. The technical training was six months alone then you spend all that time in upgrade training. However we could go with the plane pretty much when ever it hit the road. There was no dedicated flying crew chief program where I was. If you were a 5 or 7 level crew chief, you could fly with aircraft as frequently as you would like.

I completed my enlistment with the ANG and moved over to the AF-R. I should start down the pipeline for flight engineer on the C-5 in the next month or so. However to get to this point has been long and frustrating. 18 months to get my flight phyiscal and I'll spend 20 months in training before I am a mission qualified FE.

Not sure if your age is a factor, but the Air Force processes take forever. As stated above go for "ease of getting in." Maybe your MOS will transfer over to an Air Force AFSC so you can get "in". Finish college and apply for your UPT position.
Click to expand...

That is quite a while just to get into school. I hear horror stories about the lengths of time it takes to do things all across the reserve. My current MOS is 6324; avionics technician on the Bell Hueys and Cobras. I spent about a year or so in school for it, but it's not as fulfilling as I thought it would be, because it doesn't really involve much flying at all. Like I mentioned above, I'm 22 at the moment, with an October birthday - putting me at 23 exiting AD and going to the ANG as a current sophomore in my degree program. I'l have time but I don't want to push it by going through a 2 year long school for something that I won't be doing forever, so I see your point.

Question for you guys. I knew a handful of Marines that did online college courses while in MOS school, which was 8-10 hour days 5 days a week. If it was doable then I'm sure it would be doable in LM MOS school? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just curious as to whether or not I would have to halt classes completely until I exit training and go back to a drilling status. Just brainstorming out loud.
 
@NewYorkophile is absolutely correct. I'd like to know who the Capt is and what his background was, if he was AF he may have been a C-5 guy, I dunno, maybe C-5 loads aren't as busy as -17 and -130 dudes but I can assure you they are just as vital to the crew.

I am a Guard baby, prior LM now a Capt flying the Herk. It is an excellent career choice and an excellent way to get yourself to UPT as long as you work your ass off, know your job and can get along with people without being a d-bag. As was mentioned, age might be your limiting factor and something to consider, if you're in or approaching your mid twenties you may want to look at a career field where the pipeline isn't as long and time consuming, e.g., Life Support.


edit: just read your last post concerning your age, you still have time. Also, I wouldn't plan on taking any courses during load school, you will need to focus on academics and flying while in training.
 
Kato said:
@NewYorkophile is absolutely correct. I'd like to know who the Capt is
Click to expand...

The dudes name is Jay Sailer. If I remember correctly, he was a -130 load. His time as a load was in the mid '90s.

He liked doing the job just fine, didn't feel he was always a part of the crew. Not sure if it was a squadron thing or what.
 
+1 to @NewYorkophile

I've been out of 130 LM school for a few months now. It's probably the best career enlisted aviator AFSC there is, especially with the airdrop mission on the 130's. I guess your limitation would be what guard/reserve unit your willing to commute to. I live in Missouri and the MOANG has C-130's, so it'd be pretty difficult for me to be a C-5 loadmaster. Another thing to keep in mind if you go the 130 route, that unit will eventually upgrade to the J model. The FE position doesn't exist on a J model, so if you're looking for the long haul, LM is a safer bet.
 
Well a few more questions to consider

Location, everyone says they don't care then they go to UPT to fly KC-135s in Fairbanks, which ends up not being such a great idea. If having a family or starting one is important to you, being close to where you grew up may be important to you, obviously a host of other factors play into it.. Think hard about a guard unit and the location, simply because the location that you set roots down in grows more important the older you get.

What is your ultimate career goal, airline pilot? something else? Make sure UPT and the 10 year commitment afterwards is something you're up for and will ultimately fit into your life. Seems dumb to think about at 22, but you should always be moving forwards to your ultimate goal, whatever that may be. Keep in mind the guard is a PART TIME gig, even as a pilot. Get that degree done though, at the glacial pace things are moving in the guard right now it almost seems like you need to be hired by 27, not 28, to get down to UPT on time.
 
Andrew_Neal said:
I'll preface more of this by stating I eventually want to go for a UPT spot, but I'm still in school. In the mean time.. I'm looking for something that allows me to be airborne, often, and also allows me to travel.

Any help or gouge is greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

You may consider just getting your degree done ASAP and then going straight for the UPT slot. Re-enlisting, tech school, etc etc in the Guard will take ages to get through and back to school.

Also - when you do try to find a fit for you in the Guard, consider spending time with different units and airframes on a bro level... you may mesh into the crowd that flies pointy nose jets!
 
Kato said:
@NewYorkophile is absolutely correct. I'd like to know who the Capt is and what his background was, if he was AF he may have been a C-5 guy, I dunno, maybe C-5 loads aren't as busy as -17 and -130 dudes but I can assure you they are just as vital to the crew.

I am a Guard baby, prior LM now a Capt flying the Herk. It is an excellent career choice and an excellent way to get yourself to UPT as long as you work your ass off, know your job and can get along with people without being a d-bag. As was mentioned, age might be your limiting factor and something to consider, if you're in or approaching your mid twenties you may want to look at a career field where the pipeline isn't as long and time consuming, e.g., Life Support.


edit: just read your last post concerning your age, you still have time. Also, I wouldn't plan on taking any courses during load school, you will need to focus on academics and flying while in training.
Click to expand...

Definitely wouldn't mind flying the Herk. My grandfather worked on them as an enlisted airman and ended up retiring from Lockheed Martin after being apart of the C-130 program for a number of years, I grew up with my dad telling me stories about how much his dad enjoyed the aircraft. I was born in Marietta, GA and grew up in Northern GA around Dobbins, so I developed an appreciate for the bird that I can't really describe. I sit out here on the flightline in the sandbox watching the C-130's and C-17's come and go - I love watching them take off and land. Maybe I'm weird. Glad to hear from somebody that I have enough time to make all of this work.
 
You have the prior service box checked so that will help out alot. As you finish your degree try to find a handful of Units to "Rush" to see if you can find a good fit. You mentioned Dobbins, they have a Herk Reserve sq there. They would be a good starting point. You may not be able to get to that unit but start calling and talking to the Squadron's pilot recruiter. Get on a first name basis with these people and figure out a game plan. With your backround I'd say you have the military thing down, what about the flying part? Not sure if you have any flight time but atleast get to your solo flight. I think with some flight time and degree finished you should be relatively competitive to get a UPT slot, if all your other stuff is competitive...AFOQT, PCSM etc. You may be in the position to go straight to UPT opposed to filling a position that you may not be in longterm.
 
Soku39 said:
Well a few more questions to consider

Location, everyone says they don't care then they go to UPT to fly KC-135s in Fairbanks, which ends up not being such a great idea. If having a family or starting one is important to you, being close to where you grew up may be important to you, obviously a host of other factors play into it.. Think hard about a guard unit and the location, simply because the location that you set roots down in grows more important the older you get.

What is your ultimate career goal, airline pilot? something else? Make sure UPT and the 10 year commitment afterwards is something you're up for and will ultimately fit into your life. Seems dumb to think about at 22, but you should always be moving forwards to your ultimate goal, whatever that may be. Keep in mind the guard is a PART TIME gig, even as a pilot. Get that degree done though, at the glacial pace things are moving in the guard right now it almost seems like you need to be hired by 27, not 28, to get down to UPT on time.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know the guard and reserve are part time gigs; that is what I want. My ultimate goal is to be an airline or cooperate pilot. Will probably be working for Lockheed Martin, Bell, Northrop & Grumman, Gulfstream, or an employer such as this in embedded software engineering or A&P work - probably both, A&P prior to finishing my degree and software engineering following my degree. Most aviators I talk to actually advise having a 2nd gig through the regional phase of the aviation ladder. The majority of airline pilots I know, personally, flew for X amount of years in the air force and now fly for Delta. 2 to be exact, one of them posts on here; @WMostellar. It seems to be the kind of job, that in the later and more senior years of flying (maybe in my 40's and 50's) allows for an excellent work/life balance, and the ability to set deep roots in the area I grew up in. Which is very important to me. This plan is all assuming I am able to snag a UPT slot in the guard or reserve on or before my 28th birthday.

kaudbron said:
You have the prior service box checked so that will help out alot. As you finish your degree try to find a handful of Units to "Rush" to see if you can find a good fit. You mentioned Dobbins, they have a Herk Reserve sq there. They would be a good starting point. You may not be able to get to that unit but start calling and talking to the Squadron's pilot recruiter. Get on a first name basis with these people and figure out a game plan. With your backround I'd say you have the military thing down, what about the flying part? Not sure if you have any flight time but atleast get to your solo flight. I think with some flight time and degree finished you should be relatively competitive to get a UPT slot, if all your other stuff is competitive...AFOQT, PCSM etc. You may be in the position to go straight to UPT opposed to filling a position that you may not be in longterm.
Click to expand...

My intent is to be full steam ahead on my degree so that I can finish it by the time I'm 25, or 26 with LM AFSC schooling. Then, I'll start applying for UPT at multiple units that I'd enjoy flying for based on location and airframe. During that time, if I haven't already started, I'll be working on my PPL. I would really like to be able to get into the guard and into a LM AFSC without screwing myself out of a UPT spot because of age limitations, I think this is the biggest delima right now.
 
Just an update; I'm home from Afghanistan and I'm still working on my degree full time, while on active duty. I EAS in 11 months, possibly sooner, and have a job lined up as a federal avionics worker at Cherry Point until I can finish my degree and get into UPT. All in a perfect world, right?
 
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