Most recent talks between Envoy MEC and AAG end without agreement

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This sucks I always liked Eagle even though I never worked there. I also give they're pilot group props for saying no so many times.

The concept of regionals taking concessions is insane. They already are the B scale.

On a totally different note, I worked for a DL connection carrier previously and was based in Ohio. There was some animosity between our regional CAs and mainline who felt slighted by "big daddy D." I bolted out the door an didnt bother with the quagmire, but one thing I noticed is how nimbly bimbly D was to adjust to the changing environment. I think Delta recognized both the shortage of young willing regional pilots, along with the aging expensive regional pilots and reacted first. They bought those ex AT 717s and ramped up hiring very quickly...

As for AA and United? My impression (bc I flew codeshare for them as well) was that they'd rather stick they're fingers in they're ears and pretend the problem wasn't there, then react irrationally... Instead of prepping well ahead, they'd rather wait to the last minute, then close bases, cancel flying, and get into a pissing match with they're regional partners. Perhaps they're not looking past the next quarterly statement?

It's not like we didn't see this coming...
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
This sucks I always liked Eagle even though I never worked there. I also give they're pilot group props for saying no so many times.

The concept of regionals taking concessions is insane. They already are the B scale.

On a totally different note, I worked for a DL connection carrier previously and was based in Ohio. There was some animosity between our regional CAs and mainline who felt slighted by "big daddy D." I bolted out the door an didnt bother with the quagmire, but one thing I noticed is how nimbly bimbly D was to adjust to the changing environment. I think Delta recognized both the shortage of young willing regional pilots, along with the aging expensive regional pilots and reacted first. They bought those ex AT 717s and ramped up hiring very quickly...

As for AA and United? My impression (bc I flew codeshare for them as well) was that they'd rather stick they're fingers in they're ears and pretend the problem wasn't there, then react irrationally... Instead of prepping well ahead, they'd rather wait to the last minute, then close bases, cancel flying, and get into a pissing match with they're regional partners. Perhaps they're not looking past the next quarterly statement?

It's not like we didn't see this coming...
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I don't think mainline has felt the effects of regional issues to this point. They have contractual performance metrics that must be met and it's not until that point that it becomes the mainline problems. You arent concerned that Becky called in sick at the last minute at mcdonalds as long as you still get your burger in a timely fashion, you don't care.
 
J Cole said:
Reposted and updated from an earlier thread.

American Eagle

Air Wisconsin:
  • 71 CRJ-200
    • Air Wisconsin operates these aircraft in a codeshare agreement with US Airways. Currently, they do not have codeshare agreements with any other major airlines.
Chautauqua :
  • 9 ERJ-140
    • This codeshare agreement represents the last vestiges of the regional feed that American inherited from TWA. Chautaqua has recently announced that they are terminating this agreement later this year to help with staffing issues on their E-175s and have already sent 5 of the original 14 aircraft to storage.
Compass:
  • 0 E-175
    • Compass has recently signed a contract to fly 20 E-175s for AAG. Deliveries start early next year.
Envoy (American Eagle):
  • 47 CRJ-700
  • 118 ERJ-145
  • 59 ERJ-140
    • Envoy is a wholly owned subsidiary of AAG.
    • The 140s are actively being parked, so this number is probably inaccurate.
Expressjet:
  • 11 CRJ-200
    • Expressjet operates 11 CRJ-200 aircraft out of DFW as part of a 4 year agreement with American Airlines. These aircraft are branded and painted as American Eagle aircraft.
Mesa:
  • 47 CRJ-900
    • Before their merger, Mesa had codeshare agreements with both US Airways and America West Airlines. They currently operate 47 CRJ-900s for US Airways out of PHX and CLT.
PSA:
  • 35 CRJ-200
  • 14 CRJ-700
  • 5 CRJ-900 (in American Eagle livery)
    • PSA is a wholly owned subsidiary of AAG and was previously a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group. They currently have an agreement with American Airlines for delivery of 30 CRJ-900s with options for 40 more.
Piedmont:
  • 33 Dash 8-100
  • 11 Dash 8-300
    • Piedmont is a wholly owned subsidiary of AAG and was previously a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group. Piedmont pilots are not based in the main US Airways hubs, but rather at outstations.
    • Piedmont has a tentative agreement with AAG regarding flow to American (and possibly the next 20 E-175s?). Details are not known yet.
Republic:
  • 31 E-175 (American Eagle)
    • Republic has a 12 year agreement to fly 47 E-175s for American Eagle out of Chicago with options for 47 more. Delivery rate is 2-3 per month.
  • 38 E-175 (US Airways Express)
  • 20 E-170 (US Airways Express)
Skywest:
  • 12 CRJ-200 (American Eagle)
    • Skywest operates 12 CRJ-200 aircraft out of LAX as part of a 4 year agreement with American Airlines. These aircraft are branded and painted as American Eagle aircraft.
    • Skywest if also flying 4 CRJ-200s based out of ORD, though I am unsure if these are in addition to those listed above.
  • 14 CRJ-200 (US Airways Express)
    • Skywest has a 3 year agreement with US Airways to operate 14 CRJ-200 aircraft out of PHX that began in December 2011.
    • Additionally, Skywest has 4 CRJ-900 aircraft in US Airways Express livery that are currently parked.
TSA:
  • 3 ERJ-145
    • TSA has an agreement to fly 3 ERJ-145 aircraft out of PIT with US Airways.



Total American Eagle fleet size: 578 Aircraft
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Thanks for the recap on this information. It amazes me that a carrier has 11 regional carriers flying under their American Eagle brand. Simply incredible. I don't think any other airline has amassed this many regionals under one paint. Well eventually one paint...
 
JustinS said:
Thanks for the recap on this information. It amazes me that a carrier has 11 regional carriers flying under their American Eagle brand. Simply incredible. I don't think any other airline has amassed this many regionals under one paint. Well eventually one paint...
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I guarantee there won't be 11 carriers by the end of next year. I don't have a lot of hope for some of the carriers on that list. By the time they all become American Eagle, there will probably be only 6 or 7.
 
JustinS said:
Thanks for the recap on this information. It amazes me that a carrier has 11 regional carriers flying under their American Eagle brand. Simply incredible. I don't think any other airline has amassed this many regionals under one paint. Well eventually one paint...
Click to expand...

I think at one point DAL had ASA, Comair, Skywest, ExpressJet, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Chitauqua, Shuttle America, Compass, Big Sky, Freedom, and maybe a couple of others flying for them at one time.
 
Kingairer said:
I don't think mainline has felt the effects of regional issues to this point. They have contractual performance metrics that must be met and it's not until that point that it becomes the mainline problems. You arent concerned that Becky called in sick at the last minute at mcdonalds as long as you still get your burger in a timely fashion, you don't care.
Click to expand...

Kind of, but I mean DL was the first of the three to start hiring (Im not counting USAir though they're hired first IIRC). They also opened up the school house pipeline earlier and quicker than the others.

United is still trying to get furloughs online, then waiting til regional staffing got so bad they cancelled a crap ton of flights... Then "oh crap! Close Cleveland! Its our regional partners' fault" More of a knee jerk surprised reaction.

Delta saw it coming and just transitioned from RJs to 717s without skipping a beat. "Not enough RJ pilots to fly TVC to DTW? No problem, load up the 717!"

Just my impression from the bottom up.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
This sucks I always liked Eagle even though I never worked there. I also give they're pilot group props for saying no so many times.

The concept of regionals taking concessions is insane. They already are the B scale.

On a totally different note, I worked for a DL connection carrier previously and was based in Ohio. There was some animosity between our regional CAs and mainline who felt slighted by "big daddy D." I bolted out the door an didnt bother with the quagmire, but one thing I noticed is how nimbly bimbly D was to adjust to the changing environment. I think Delta recognized both the shortage of young willing regional pilots, along with the aging expensive regional pilots and reacted first. They bought those ex AT 717s and ramped up hiring very quickly...

As for AA and United? My impression (bc I flew codeshare for them as well) was that they'd rather stick they're fingers in they're ears and pretend the problem wasn't there, then react irrationally... Instead of prepping well ahead, they'd rather wait to the last minute, then close bases, cancel flying, and get into a pissing match with they're regional partners. Perhaps they're not looking past the next quarterly statement?

It's not like we didn't see this coming...
Click to expand...


Oh it's been in the works for a while..... However, until the pain actually hits mainline, they just don't care.

By the way, not to be the grammar nazi, but I couldn't help but notice the above three uses of "they're" instead of "their" here.
 
Derg said:
I think it also helped that SWA gave it up (the 717's) like a wine cooler drunk cheerleader on prom night.
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Speaking of which, there is a pretty good (check airman :)) rumor out here that Delta wants to get rid of a few of the 717s and sub lease them to us.
 
BobDDuck said:
Speaking of which, there is a pretty good (check airman :)) rumor out here that Delta wants to get rid of a few of the 717s and sub lease them to us.
Click to expand...

I see they mess with your LCA's too! :)

"We even have the 380 performance manuals on the fourth floor, they're going to make an announcement in four to six weeks*"






* "Four to Six Weeks", for anyone who doesn't know, is code for "I've been duped and don't even realize it, but I'm effective at spreading rumors"
 
Derg said:
I see they mess with your LCA's too! :)

"We even have the 380 performance manuals on the fourth floor, they're going to make an announcement in four to six weeks*"






* "Four to Six Weeks", for anyone who doesn't know, is code for "I've been duped and don't even realize it, but I'm effective at spreading rumors"
Click to expand...

In all honesty, I believed the rumor that we were going to increase the 717 fleet until I heard where the planes were supposed to be coming from. Then... not so much so anymore.
 
BobDDuck said:
In all honesty, I believed the rumor that we were going to increase the 717 fleet until I heard where the planes were supposed to be coming from. Then... not so much so anymore.
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Yea, I have a friend in revenue management at Delta and I can tell you they are more likely to get some of yours before they give any up.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Delta saw it coming and just transitioned from RJs to 717s without skipping a beat. "Not enough RJ pilots to fly TVC to DTW? No problem, load up the 717!"

Just my impression from the bottom up.
Click to expand...
More so "we can fill up a 110 seat airplane, provide a better product, and do it more profitably"
I don't think the reason delta has switched to mainline aircraft had anything to do with a fear of regional pilot shortage. It's more about economic turn around and being able to now fill up a mainline aircraft and the availability of cheap 717s. Airlines feel like any fears that have about staffing their own airline In the future is now taken care of by the new flow through agreement that are coming with all the new contracts.
 
BobDDuck said:
Speaking of which, there is a pretty good (check airman :)) rumor out here that Delta wants to get rid of a few of the 717s and sub lease them to us.
Click to expand...
Ha! Good one!:rolleyes: It's more like they want your 717's.:stir: Delta is on the hunt for more 717s
 
J Cole said:
The company recently approached the MEC to reengage in talks about the remaining 40 EMB 175s. Neither side could find enough common footing to come to an agreement. The linked article includes a copy of the email from the MEC chair.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/...nvoy-pilots-end-without-deal.html/#more-24060

From reading the email sent out to the pilots my understanding is that the agreement the company was willing to entertain was not really much better than the one voted down last March by the pilot group. Some things improved and some things got worse.

Despite the significant attrition of pilots in the past six months at Envoy, the company remains unwilling to compromise on their desire for significant concessions in exchange for refleeting/flow through. Conversely, the pilot group has already made it clear through their votes that they will not entertain such concessions.

It is unfortunate that the company is so willing to sacrifice such an important resource all on the grounds of achieving the 12/4 year pay structure which they insist is the only way to make Envoy competitive in current regional market and into the future.
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The nature of compromise is that it requires both sides have to give up something they want in order to get something else they really want.From what I have read here it's not just the company that won't compromise.
 
Phil Schuyler said:
The nature of compromise is that it requires both sides have to give up something they want in order to get something else they really want.From what I have read here it's not just the company that won't compromise.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. In general that is true, but in this case the pilot group wasn't asking for anything except to keep a fleet of aircraft at the company. Also, they had just given up a whole bunch during BK and now the company wants more.
 
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