Most recent talks between Envoy MEC and AAG end without agreement

J Cole

J Cole

Well-Known Member
The company recently approached the MEC to reengage in talks about the remaining 40 EMB 175s. Neither side could find enough common footing to come to an agreement. The linked article includes a copy of the email from the MEC chair.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/...nvoy-pilots-end-without-deal.html/#more-24060

From reading the email sent out to the pilots my understanding is that the agreement the company was willing to entertain was not really much better than the one voted down last March by the pilot group. Some things improved and some things got worse.

Despite the significant attrition of pilots in the past six months at Envoy, the company remains unwilling to compromise on their desire for significant concessions in exchange for refleeting/flow through. Conversely, the pilot group has already made it clear through their votes that they will not entertain such concessions.

It is unfortunate that the company is so willing to sacrifice such an important resource all on the grounds of achieving the 12/4 year pay structure which they insist is the only way to make Envoy competitive in current regional market and into the future.
 
It seems that the end of envoy may be upon us. All the company wants is concessions. The MEC nor the pilot group will accept these. So, what else is there to do? While the company has been unsuccessful in getting us to accept concessions, they have been very successful in scaring away the most junior of pilots and junior captains (read: lowest paid). All this while very little new hires show up for class. I really hope to see this bite AAG in the a$$ down the road.

And if you're an American or US Air pilot, I'd be paying close attention. Because Walmart Doug and his jerry glAss will be after you guys next!
 
bretthullrampage said:
This is such a bummer, I was certain they would reach a deal. Im seriously considering a lateral move now.
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Agreed. I'm starting to think about it more seriously myself. I suppose it will depend on displacements and how fast things move at the majors for me.
 
J Cole said:
Agreed. I'm starting to think about it more seriously myself. I suppose it will depend on displacements and how fast things move at the majors for me.
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Its a gamble. Id rather not wait too long and miss out on some of the quick upgrades but on the other hand I dont want to give up 3 years of seniority in case something good does happen here.
 
I'm not certain how companies like this can survive. Management can't pay more because their income is fixed. Crews are unwilling to be paid less. Attracting talent is difficult.

It's going to just boil down to who can hang on until enough regionals go out of business that majors pay more in their capacity agreements, or there are enough guys on the street to stay staffed at current levels of pay, though that's only a temporary fix.

That segment of the industry is just not stable as-is. Something's gotta give.
 
PDT and AA just got a TA for these airplanes and a new contract this week. We'll see if they sign on the dotted line or not, my bet is they will (I haven't seen the TA just a guess based on their short life span without new planes). Thus the problem with the whole regional vs management deal, you're only as strong as your weakest member.
 
I'm thinking, and I've been wrong before, but the big guys (mainline whatever) aren't going to give up capacity, be it FFD or their own equipment. This is my assumption.

At what point is it cheaper for, say AAG to fly a route using their own metal, than have Envoy/RAH etc... Fly that route (ASM->CASM)?
Is this something that the FFD pilot groups willing to fall on their own sword to achieve?
 
AAL management has upped the stakes by negotiating a flow agreement with Piedmont. The company simply wants cheap bodies. As for the low hanging fruit, Piedmont is about it. I am not aware of other regionals that are not currently fully engaged.

This is a real game of chicken with both sides not willing to blink, at least not now. The company is used to getting its way and the Envoy pilots are betting the pilot shortage will give them the necessary leverage to get a workable contract.
 
AAG scope has relaxed and will grow feeders from 30% to 40% over the next couple years. But they did give them DAL/UAL pay parity.

Eagle was going to shrink substantially anyway. Lots of smaller 135s and 145s don't make any sense moving forward.

GTFO GTFO GTFO
 
Zapphod Beblebrox said:
AAL management has upped the stakes by negotiating a flow agreement with Piedmont. The company simply wants cheap bodies. As for the low hanging fruit, Piedmont is about it. I am not aware of other regionals that are not currently fully engaged.

This is a real game of chicken with both sides not willing to blink, at least not now. The company is used to getting its way and the Envoy pilots are betting the pilot shortage will give them the necessary leverage to get a workable contract.
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Theres little incentive to sign anything now. If PDT takes the deal then that leaves 20 remaining aircraft. Thats hardly enough to even consider a carrot. Unless AAG decides to exercise some of the 90 options I dont see Eaglevoy entertaining the idea of concessions for only 20 aircraft.
 
What is the total aircraft between PDT, RAH an compass and any others? How many seats does that compare to what Envoy has currently with the 145's?
 
Nark said:
What is the total aircraft between PDT, RAH an compass and any others? How many seats does that compare to what Envoy has currently with the 145's?
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Reposted and updated from an earlier thread.

American Eagle

Air Wisconsin:
  • 71 CRJ-200
    • Air Wisconsin operates these aircraft in a codeshare agreement with US Airways. Currently, they do not have codeshare agreements with any other major airlines.
Chautauqua :
  • 9 ERJ-140
    • This codeshare agreement represents the last vestiges of the regional feed that American inherited from TWA. Chautaqua has recently announced that they are terminating this agreement later this year to help with staffing issues on their E-175s and have already sent 5 of the original 14 aircraft to storage.
Compass:
  • 0 E-175
    • Compass has recently signed a contract to fly 20 E-175s for AAG. Deliveries start early next year.
Envoy (American Eagle):
  • 47 CRJ-700
  • 118 ERJ-145
  • 59 ERJ-140
    • Envoy is a wholly owned subsidiary of AAG.
    • The 140s are actively being parked, so this number is probably inaccurate.
Expressjet:
  • 11 CRJ-200
    • Expressjet operates 11 CRJ-200 aircraft out of DFW as part of a 4 year agreement with American Airlines. These aircraft are branded and painted as American Eagle aircraft.
Mesa:
  • 47 CRJ-900
    • Before their merger, Mesa had codeshare agreements with both US Airways and America West Airlines. They currently operate 47 CRJ-900s for US Airways out of PHX and CLT.
PSA:
  • 35 CRJ-200
  • 14 CRJ-700
  • 5 CRJ-900 (in American Eagle livery)
    • PSA is a wholly owned subsidiary of AAG and was previously a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group. They currently have an agreement with American Airlines for delivery of 30 CRJ-900s with options for 40 more.
Piedmont:
  • 33 Dash 8-100
  • 11 Dash 8-300
    • Piedmont is a wholly owned subsidiary of AAG and was previously a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group. Piedmont pilots are not based in the main US Airways hubs, but rather at outstations.
    • Piedmont has a tentative agreement with AAG regarding flow to American (and possibly the next 20 E-175s?). Details are not known yet.
Republic:
  • 31 E-175 (American Eagle)
    • Republic has a 12 year agreement to fly 47 E-175s for American Eagle out of Chicago with options for 47 more. Delivery rate is 2-3 per month.
  • 38 E-175 (US Airways Express)
  • 20 E-170 (US Airways Express)
Skywest:
  • 12 CRJ-200 (American Eagle)
    • Skywest operates 12 CRJ-200 aircraft out of LAX as part of a 4 year agreement with American Airlines. These aircraft are branded and painted as American Eagle aircraft.
    • Skywest if also flying 4 CRJ-200s based out of ORD, though I am unsure if these are in addition to those listed above.
  • 14 CRJ-200 (US Airways Express)
    • Skywest has a 3 year agreement with US Airways to operate 14 CRJ-200 aircraft out of PHX that began in December 2011.
    • Additionally, Skywest has 4 CRJ-900 aircraft in US Airways Express livery that are currently parked.
TSA:
  • 3 ERJ-145
    • TSA has an agreement to fly 3 ERJ-145 aircraft out of PIT with US Airways.



Total American Eagle fleet size: 578 Aircraft
 
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Until now I have been adamant against sideways moves, but thinking the time may have come. I'm not chasing upgrade, I'm chasing QOL.
 
Comair 100ER said:
And if you're an American or US Air pilot, I'd be paying close attention. Because Walmart Doug and his jerry glAss will be after you guys next!
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Totally different sector of the industry. When you actually own your own flying you have all kinds of protections (as long as you aren't facing a sham BK) that aren't afforded to feeder carriers.
 
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