National Association of Airline Professionals (NAAP)
- Thread starter FlightController
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69beers
Well-Known Member
Bitter and angry - no. Sarcastic -yes. At this point I am not part of the TWU investigation, nor do I belong to the Department of Labor, therefore this mess is not in my hands anymore than it is yours, so I have nothing more to contribute than you or anybody else on this forum other than historical observations.
The irony is that I have nothing to lose and everything to gain from the purse-swinging and hair-pulling between you two groups. Stay, leave, fight, give up, do whatever because in the end the advice I was given in dispatch school was heeded: Avoid AAL and JP like the plague and you'll do fine. Checked that block.
The irony is that I have nothing to lose and everything to gain from the purse-swinging and hair-pulling between you two groups. Stay, leave, fight, give up, do whatever because in the end the advice I was given in dispatch school was heeded: Avoid AAL and JP like the plague and you'll do fine. Checked that block.
I dont see how anybody has anything to gain from as you suggest, purse swinging and hair-pulling. Can you tell us what is you stand to gain? Can you tell what either side stands to gain by purse swinging and hair pulling?
69beers
Well-Known Member
Obviously neither side gains a thing besides smeared makeup. However, if you're in the UPS section of 545 then you: A) gain more bank from the combined groups if they stay TWU 545, B) keep what's left of the money if they go naap and get independence from a 3:1 vote ratio in the local.
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69beers
Well-Known Member
Yes, as much as I hate history it just never goes away.
Sounds you are not a fan of Local 545, you dont really care about the dispatchers at US, and you just want to stir the pot. Is that accurate assessment?
69beers
Well-Known Member
SWOOSH, as a purse swings by...
Not really a fan, care just as much for them as they have always cared for us, and the pot has been dumped all over the floor. Everybody on both sides is going to get screwed in this merger. Nobody in their right mind has trusted JP since the TWA stapling. There's nothing I can do but sit back and watch yet another fair and equitable AAL merger.
This pretty much sums up my position. It's basically free of any and all emotion and shouldn't be examined too deeply as it has no bearing on either side.
Not really a fan, care just as much for them as they have always cared for us, and the pot has been dumped all over the floor. Everybody on both sides is going to get screwed in this merger. Nobody in their right mind has trusted JP since the TWA stapling. There's nothing I can do but sit back and watch yet another fair and equitable AAL merger.
This pretty much sums up my position. It's basically free of any and all emotion and shouldn't be examined too deeply as it has no bearing on either side.
Well I feel better already. Almost warm and fuzzy.
No one, not one person in this office, is going to take anyone's word that "this one will be different" until JP and crew have nothing to do with a leadership position in any union that has anything to do with this merger. Not just about whether or not 545 is going to be stapled to the bottom, which I personally don't think will happen.
Our mis-trust isn't just with JP and it started when official announcement was made we'd be coming to DFW. Kimball Stone came up here for the announcement and made himself available for the day for questions which he initially gained points for. Those points were quickly lost when asked about contract negotiations he very flatly and arrogantly stated, "Well, we have a proposal to get the two groups under one contract, and that's to accept the AA (bankruptcy) contract and move on and that was unacceptable to your leadership. Ours is a superior contract." I'm paraphrasing here. Frankly, no one in this office feels the AA contract is superior to ours. That's been debated elsewhere on this forum.
Add to that the fact that everyone involved in this merger from the AA side seems to have the attitude of "the American way is the best and only way" and we're all pretty fed up with how this merger is going. At the meeting Mr. Stone was at here in PIT about moving to DFW he basically came straight out and said just that, in a much more diplomatic way, while making it very clear he had no interest in our input on much of anything.
Ah to hell with it. The American way is the best way.
Big,
I can tell you that we all feel the exact opposite down here. Here, it's welcome to the new US Airways. If you include all areas, 75 percent of the current management is US. Here in IOC, it's either US or former Northwest.
I understand how you may feel about what Stone has said to you, but don't hold us responsible for what he said. In addition, we are hearing things down here about your board that's not giving us a warm and fuzzy either. How about Danny telling everyone he was on a plane coming down for a meeting that was cancelled a week earlier. And what's going on with your new hires. Did the union not know the new hires were to help cover merger activities? It was not a secret here. Why didn't they tell the company 5 months ago that it wasn't going to work. Now you have your own members not being able to upgrade. I know you want to blame the company, and maybe they are at vault, but you can't tell me the union didn't know. I've been involved in private conversations with US dispatchers who say that Danny is trying to back door the entire process by trying to leverage the company into giving you things that we have that you want. Those discussions haven't included 542. I even heard that one of your board members told an AA dispatcher that 545 was going to try and leverage the "single operating certificate" by delaying that process in hopes of convincing the company to give US things that they normally would have to negotiate for in the joint collective bargaining agreement. Those are pretty drastic steps when your contract is so superior. So we have as much as a warm and fuzzy for your leadership as you have for ours.
I get it, you don't like JP for whatever reasons you have, but your leadership is a bit suspect too. I think we would be naïve to think 100 percent of the US dispatchers are behind Danny and support the TWU, as it would be to think 100 percent is behind JP and NAAP.
I can tell you that we all feel the exact opposite down here. Here, it's welcome to the new US Airways. If you include all areas, 75 percent of the current management is US. Here in IOC, it's either US or former Northwest.
I understand how you may feel about what Stone has said to you, but don't hold us responsible for what he said. In addition, we are hearing things down here about your board that's not giving us a warm and fuzzy either. How about Danny telling everyone he was on a plane coming down for a meeting that was cancelled a week earlier. And what's going on with your new hires. Did the union not know the new hires were to help cover merger activities? It was not a secret here. Why didn't they tell the company 5 months ago that it wasn't going to work. Now you have your own members not being able to upgrade. I know you want to blame the company, and maybe they are at vault, but you can't tell me the union didn't know. I've been involved in private conversations with US dispatchers who say that Danny is trying to back door the entire process by trying to leverage the company into giving you things that we have that you want. Those discussions haven't included 542. I even heard that one of your board members told an AA dispatcher that 545 was going to try and leverage the "single operating certificate" by delaying that process in hopes of convincing the company to give US things that they normally would have to negotiate for in the joint collective bargaining agreement. Those are pretty drastic steps when your contract is so superior. So we have as much as a warm and fuzzy for your leadership as you have for ours.
I get it, you don't like JP for whatever reasons you have, but your leadership is a bit suspect too. I think we would be naïve to think 100 percent of the US dispatchers are behind Danny and support the TWU, as it would be to think 100 percent is behind JP and NAAP.
Nobody is going to
Nobody is going to unilaterally force anything anywhere, eventually there will be discussions, negotiations a TA and a vote by all the members on both sides. I don't see anything being done one-sided by anybody anywhere and again to suggest that is just stirring the pot and trying to instill fear in to people. I don't think JP or anybody from Local 542, or 545 has that kind of power. Think about it.
Nobody is going to unilaterally force anything anywhere, eventually there will be discussions, negotiations a TA and a vote by all the members on both sides. I don't see anything being done one-sided by anybody anywhere and again to suggest that is just stirring the pot and trying to instill fear in to people. I don't think JP or anybody from Local 542, or 545 has that kind of power. Think about it.
Nobody is going to
Nobody is going to unilaterally force anything anywhere, eventually there will be discussions, negotiations a TA and a vote by all the members on both sides. I don't see anything being done one-sided by anybody anywhere and again to suggest that is just stirring the pot and trying to instill fear in to people. I don't think JP or anybody from Local 542, or 545 has that kind of power. Think about it.
Nobody is going to unilaterally force anything anywhere, eventually there will be discussions, negotiations a TA and a vote by all the members on both sides. I don't see anything being done one-sided by anybody anywhere and again to suggest that is just stirring the pot and trying to instill fear in to people. I don't think JP or anybody from Local 542, or 545 has that kind of power. Think about it.
Bogey...the union did tell the company multiple times it wasn't going to work (going back as far as five months before the class was hired) and the company (specifically Marc Gross) didn't listen. That's why this issue exists.
As far as the other stuff you mention...I don't know where it's coming from but that is not the impression I get here. I can say that Danny also represented my former work group...and I thought he did a good job there as he always responded to questions and took less than a year in section 6 to get a TA that was almost unanimously adopted by the group. I spoke with an former ExpressJet employee who told me that he tried to file a grievance over a legitimate seniority issue and went to JP again and again. JP didn't respond until the statute of limitations expired then of course said he couldn't do anything about it,
As for adopt and go AA...I do think it's best in the long term to take this approach. Yes there are plenty of things that US may do better...but historically when you take a best of both approach it ends up in disaster...but adopting and go the bigger carrier may be a change for some people...but history shows it works out best in the long term. I have no issues with this approach.
As far as the other stuff you mention...I don't know where it's coming from but that is not the impression I get here. I can say that Danny also represented my former work group...and I thought he did a good job there as he always responded to questions and took less than a year in section 6 to get a TA that was almost unanimously adopted by the group. I spoke with an former ExpressJet employee who told me that he tried to file a grievance over a legitimate seniority issue and went to JP again and again. JP didn't respond until the statute of limitations expired then of course said he couldn't do anything about it,
As for adopt and go AA...I do think it's best in the long term to take this approach. Yes there are plenty of things that US may do better...but historically when you take a best of both approach it ends up in disaster...but adopting and go the bigger carrier may be a change for some people...but history shows it works out best in the long term. I have no issues with this approach.
I think that's the best lesson learned in this thread.
FlightController
Well-Known Member
So... Did the NAAP file for a representation vote? I saw it on the NMB website...