Great Lakes limps further

[FloridaLarry]

hook dupin said:

The most recent 10-Q is far more alarming than the forbearance notification. The airline managed to have a $4M loss on $13M in revenue. Their current ratio (ratio of easily liquidatable assets to short-term debt) is 0.6. The stockholders are screwed.....

Absolutely. And, under accounting rules, the long-term debt has to be re-classified as short-term debt by the terms of their note and the fact that they are in breach of three covenants in it.

Buying time for a Hail Mary pass, and the quarterback has been sacked.

 

[FloridaLarry]

eightballfreight said (in part):

I might be the only dude in America that thinks the 1900 is a viable commuter in a few select markets, but that's cool.

You're not the only one. Look at where the Metros, Bandierantes, BAE Jetstreams, Dornier 228s etc. are flying now. If at all. All are un-pressurized, I believe, all long out of production. The only comparable ones still being being made are the Czech Let 410, Chinese Harbin Y-11 and Spanish Casa 210, also all un-pressurized. Last Beech 1900-D rolled off the Wichita assembly line in 2002.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

No board will voluntarily vote itself into unemployment as long as they can convince someone to lend them money, which they appear to have done so.
They are reshuffling, sort of, by going 135. The question is will they run out of loan money before it starts making a difference?

I think it's amazing that places will actually lend companies like GL money. One little bit of due diligence and you'd see it as a bad idea. Heck, use the search function on this forum and read for 3 minutes...

 

[SeanD]

Im curious on how they plan on paying back the loan and what the terms where. Someone is either an uneducated investor or someone who loves drama. One thing this place has proved over the past few years though, is that some folks will take the job at the current rates.

 

[Inverted]

eightballfreight said (in part):


You're not the only one. Look at where the Metros, Bandierantes, BAE Jetstreams, Dornier 228s etc. are flying now. If at all. All are un-pressurized, I believe, all long out of production. The only comparable ones still being being made are the Czech Let 410, Chinese Harbin Y-11 and Spanish Casa 210, also all un-pressurized. Last Beech 1900-D rolled off the Wichita assembly line in 2002.

Metros are pressurized.

GLA 1900s will go the way of freight, or be pumped up to Canada/Alaska. 50 seaters are going away, 20 seaters are beyond irrelevant. GLA hasn't been filling its planes going from weird airports to hubs, so I doubt there will be anyone willing to take over pax flying with 1900s in the lower 48.

 

[FloridaLarry]

Inverted said:

GLA 1900s will go the way of freight, or be pumped up to Canada/Alaska. 50 seaters are going away, 20 seaters are beyond irrelevant. GLA hasn't been filling its planes going from weird airports to hubs, so I doubt there will be anyone willing to take over pax flying with 1900s in the lower 48.

I almost agree. The number of cities where 19 Pax (more than 19 = FAA requirement for an FA) is appropriate, is narrowing but not extinct. In the EAS business, it's being nibbled upon from below by C-402s, Caravans and Pilatii. At the upper end, by semi-surplus E135s, E145s and CRJ 50s.

Otherwise, it's freight or third-world countries

There remain cities with too much traffic for 9 pax, and not enough to sustain the small jets now, and not enough growth potential for the jets. These airports are semi-rural, but the congressional delegations from the boonies are strong. Intelligent subsidies won't go away. The choices beyond the mighty Beech (no one seems interested in importing 19 pax aircraft into the US) remain +/- 30 Pax turboprops.

The determining factor is matching cost per seat mile to existing and near-term growth PAX (& subsidy) revenue.

 

[mshunter]

When pay checks start bouncing is when they will shut down. No one will show up to work.

 

[jwp_145]

Inverted said:




Otherwise, it's freight or third-world countries

.

I know that the airlines in Nepal would buy all of GLAs 1900s in a heartbeat... good performance, economical on the routes that most of the moutainous airlines in Nepal fly... they also love Twotters and 228s.

 

[Inverted]

I know that the airlines in Nepal would buy all of GLAs 1900s in a heartbeat... good performance, economical on the routes that most of the moutainous airlines in Nepal fly... they also love Twotters and 228s.

Ya that would actually be a great home for them. There are several foreign places that would love a 1900D.

 

[FlatSpin]

So probably not a good idea to apply here even to use it as a time builder? Too bad. From by brief search, they seem to be one of the few companies that hire under 1500 hours to put you in a plane that actually requires a co-pilot.

 

[z987k]

So probably not a good idea to apply here even to use it as a time builder? Too bad. From by brief search, they seem to be one of the few companies that hire under 1500 hours to put you in a plane that actually requires a co-pilot.

There's plenty of 135 ops out there that hire as low at 250-500tt for the right seat of an airplane that actually needs another pilot(and pay a livable wage). Or possibly as PIC for a single. The 1900 is flown single pilot almost everywhere but the 121 world, and for the life of me, I'm not sure what the right seat does except for raise the gear and make sure the captain doesn't miss something. It's part of the Beechcraft easiest twin to fly ever invented(King Air) line.

 

[hook_dupin]

I think it's amazing that places will actually lend companies like GL money. One little bit of due diligence and you'd see it as a bad idea. Heck, use the search function on this forum and read for 3 minutes...

Nobody's dumb enough to lend more money. The previous lenders are charging more in interest and fees based on GL not hitting financial targets. The current lenders realize that their principle isn't coming back, so they're trying to make up for it in increased interest payments. Lenders recognize that every cent they extract now will be one less to fight over in Chapter 7.

When pay checks start bouncing is when they will shut down. No one will show up to work.

Nope...it'll stop when fuel and parts suppliers refuse to make delivery based on GL credit. GL is likely out of cash already.

 

[mshunter]

Nobody's dumb enough to lend more money. The previous lenders are charging more in interest and fees based on GL not hitting financial targets. The current lenders realize that their principle isn't coming back, so they're trying to make up for it in increased interest payments. Lenders recognize that every cent they extract now will be one less to fight over in Chapter 7.



Nope...it'll stop when fuel and parts suppliers refuse to make delivery based on GL credit. GL is likely out of cash already.

My paycheck bounces, I don't show up for work. I've had it happen once, a long time ago. Companies will generally do that to employees before they do it to creditors from what I've seen.

 

[hook_dupin]

My paycheck bounces, I don't show up for work. I've had it happen once, a long time ago. Companies will generally do that to employees before they do it to creditors from what I've seen.

My thought was this:

Sadly, unique to this industry, I think quite a few pilots will keep going based on the argument "Hey... it's turbine PIC time.... take an IOU for a month."

The motors, however, don't run on empty promises.

Regardless, time is short.

 

[Bernoulli Fan]

Anyone want to start up a 135 with me serving WY and western SD and NE? We'll use Caravans and Pilatuses, or maybe really cheap B1900s in six or eight months.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Anyone want to start up a 135 with me serving WY and western SD and NE? We'll use Caravans and Pilatuses, or maybe really cheap B1900s in six or eight months.

Cessna 414s.

 

[Patrick]

Anyone want to start up a 135 with me serving WY and western SD and NE? We'll use Caravans and Pilatuses, or maybe really cheap B1900s in six or eight months.

I've been trying to figure out how to do just this for a while now..... problem is, unless you know someone sitting on a pile of cash they don't mind potentially losing, you'll never get it off the ground.

 

[mshunter]

I've been trying to figure out how to do just this for a while now..... problem is, unless you know someone sitting on a pile of cash they don't mind potentially losing, you'll never get it off the ground.

Not only that, but the ROI on a small carrier just isn't there. Why else do you think you are always hearing about these small companies struggling...

 

[Patrick]

Not only that, but the ROI on a small carrier just isn't there. Why else do you think you are always hearing about these small companies struggling...

Yup. Sadly, just the nature of big business taking over another industry.

 

[Bernoulli Fan]

My secret retirement dream is to have a one-pilot one-plane 135 running from WY to DEN. That would keep me busy at least.