Delta TA

Seggy said:
I think that is a slippery slope. There are some pilots that are represented by the LEC that are rabidly for these provisions. Didn't a lot of ex-NWA guys LOVE their 'stand-ups'? As a LEC Officer you have to weigh large portions of your membership and try to come to the best outcome.

If you start trying to stop introducing things because one may think it is an unwise choice, where could that stop? Should FOQA and ASAP Programs be disbanded because things change and it might be opening a pandora's box with that data? Or do you make sure there are safeguards in place to protect the pilots with that data and take a best practice approach? Same thing here. You try to get what you think the best language out there for a vote. If it fails, you move on. If it passes, you educate the pilots on this new provision and make sure safe guards are in place to protect pilots if their is a disagreement in the language.
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A handful of NW guys liked them. The rest fell to rsvs.
 
cencal83406 said:
I find that hard to believe. After doing them for 8 months total here, I never want to touch them again. We even used to get a minimum ground time. Now there is no requirement so it's entirely possible not to see the back of a hotel-room door.
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Red eye turns tend to either go super senior or super junior here. Depends on the red eye. Lots of guys do them for commutability. A couple might do it for the extra $$$ for the WOCL flying, but not many. The company tends to shift the times just enough to knock a lot of the flying out of the WOCL time frame. You might do a red eye down to Puerto Rico from Orlando that leaves at 10 pm and gets in at 5 am, but only 4 hours of it is the bonus pay. Flight gets in JUST before 5, so unless you're late, you lose out on the last hour. Then there's a long sit in Puerto Rico tossed in there.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
We have some pairings we call "red eyes" that depart MCO at 2300, arrive in Ponce at 0200 and turn right around to MCO arriving at 0600 ish. I'm not sure if we have language to keep those isolated or not, but I just had dinner with a guy yesterday who was on reserve and had flown a 3 day, then got tagged with that "red eye." He looked like death warmed over.

I guess that's technically a CDO. @kellwolf, do you know of any language in our scheduling manual to keep those "pure," or if it even addresses them at all?
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AFAIK, there's nothing in our existing PEAs that would keep them "pure" outside of the FAA limits. Next month, it's a 20:58 show and a 05:12 release for the PSE red eye. 1:05 sit in PSE before heading back. I know because they're in open time, so I'll likely wind up with a couple of them. The reserve guys are the ones that get beat down on the red eyes because of the chance they could get a mixed bag. The only good thing we have is when you get back from a red eye on reserve, the next reserve duty period or assignment can't be earlier than 0800 base local time the NEXT CALENDAR day. So if you DO get tagged for that PSE turn, you're done until 8 am the day AFTER you get back. So, the commuters like getting that one. 7 times out of 10, they'll just release you on your last day if you get a red eye the day before.
 
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Sounds worse than Endeavor's CDOs.

New Section 12.S.

S. Split Duty periods (SDP) (Unaugmented Ops Only)

1. The time that a pilot spends in the hotel during an SDP will not be counted toward his FDP limit.

2. The total time spent on an SDP (including the time spent in the hotel) will not be scheduled to be more than 12 hours without the consent of the MEC Sched Comm Chair.

3. A pilot on an SDP will:
a. be scheduled for two flight segments, each of which are no more than two hours, block-to-block, separated by at least six hours (block in to block out).
Exception: A flight segment in an SDP may be scheduled up to two hours and fifteen minutes, block-to-block, with the concurrence of the MEC Sched Comm Chair.
b. receive a sleep opportunity of at least three hours between 2200 and 0500 local time, measured from the time he arrives in his hotel room.
Note: If, due to late operations, a pilot does not receive such a sleep opportunity, the Company will:
1) schedule such a pilot to fly his originally scheduled flight segment after receiving a sleep opportunity of at least three hours, or
2) provide such a pilot a break in duty immediately after his first flight
segment.
c. will not be rerouted into an additional flight segment, other than to continue to his original destination after a diversion to a n alternate airport.

4.An SDP will not be combined with additional duty periods in a rotation.

5. A pilot:
a. will not be rerouted into an SDP.
b. may bid to avoid an SDP in PBS.
c. on an SDP in a base with co-terminal airports will depart from and arrive at the same airport.
d. whose SDP rsults in pay and credit under Section 12.M.2 of less than seven hours and thirty minutes will receive pay, no credit for the difference between seven hours and thirty minutes and such pay and credit.

6. The company and the assoc. will meet and confer at the request of either party to review issues related to the construction of SDPs, customs for intl ops in an SDP, hotel transportation requirements, and any other areas of concern.

New Section 12.Q.4
4. A pilot:
a. will not be scheduled to fly in more than three consecutive WOCLs.
b. who is scheduled to fly in three consecutive WOCLs will not fly into the subsequent two WOCLs, other than as late operations.
Exception: A pilot who is scheduled to fly in three consecutive WOCLs and who is not scheduled to fly in the fourth consecutive WOCL may be awarded flying in the fifth consecutive WOCL if he requests such duty.

New Section 12.J: Exception 2.

A pilot will not be entitled to ADG:
2) on an SDP.
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Seggy said:
Would you bid them, dependent on the language of course?
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I could entertain 1 or 2 a month due to the credit they pay. I don't mind allowing them, I just want them to be restricted in how many they can create so that only people that want to do them get them.
 
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