Delta TA

L-16B said:
Best case scenario is what most guys count on when thinking about bidding something. Couldn't agree with you more. The best case scenario for the senior CDO'S is 7-8 hours at the hotel, which is better than the old reduced rest of 8 hours. Throw in some snow storms this past February and the best case scenario went flying out the window faster than @amorris311 can finish his plate of food at Beirut in DTW.
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Be careful playing the 'best case scenario' game because it can go the other way.
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
Was this at a major or a regional? This thread is about CDOs at a major with a good contract, not some regional.
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Regionals, I'm still trying to move on. I figured when discussion evolved to cover this kind of flying and how it can benefit/hurt the quality of life of a pilot group that I could offer a little bit of insight concerning weak language and that where you bid can be more important than how you bid. I figured that was universal rather than a problem for us regional scum.
 
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PhilosopherPilot said:
We have some pairings we call "red eyes" that depart MCO at 2300, arrive in Ponce at 0200 and turn right around to MCO arriving at 0600 ish. I guess that's technically a CDO.
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It's not really a CDO as it has no scheduled rest. It's just a two leg red eye, all in one time zone. Ewww.

We do some Pongo turns out of here that leave around 6pm and get back around 6am. They are staffed with two complete crews though so apparently it's not a bad deal, and you credit 10 hours for 12 hours of work. Kind of like Delta's "dinner and a movie" flights, but overnight instead.
 
Seggy said:
Gotchya.

@Derg can you see that @ATN_Pilot and myself are not telling you guys how to vote? Just saying that the science says they are safe if done a certain way.
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Give it up, man. He's stuck on this ridiculous idea that no one else should ever be allowed to talk about what happens at the mighty widget, even if they aren't telling him how to vote. :rolleyes:
 
Discuss, absolutely.

"Internet shout down"? That will be a solo discussion, my friend.

As before, ain't nobody got time for that nor do I have any interest. And if I'm uninterested, I presume my users are as well.
 
What is that silly phrase you always use? "Butt hurt" I think? Just because someone points out the science doesn't mean that you need to feel all "butt hurt."
 
etflies said:
Regionals, I'm still trying to move on. I figured when discussion evolved to cover this kind of flying and how it can benefit/hurt the quality of life of a pilot group that I could offer a little bit of insight concerning weak language and that where you bid can be more important than how you bid. I figured that was universal rather than a problem for us regional scum.
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Well at airways CDOs go extremely senior because that nonsense doesn't happen. You bid a block of them and you work 12 days for 85 hours. No hybrid lines, no other scheduling BS. It's just nowhere near the anarchy you and others speak of.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
What is that silly phrase you always use? "Butt hurt" I think? Just because someone points out the science doesn't mean that you need to feel all "butt hurt."
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I define it as "tired" and too busy to take a dive into the morass of internet arguing with people that don't have a vested interest in what I decide and have to live with.

We can "internet argue" all you'd like, but I'm on vacation and I generally have no interest in your views on the subject. I really don't.

I divide the world into three circles: Reasonable. Prudent. Legal.

What is legal isn't always reasonable.

What's prudent isn't always legal.

Personally, in my professional opinion, it's a step backwards.

Deductive reasoning and general law may indicate that if I like tacos and I also like watermelon, scientifically-speaking, I should like watermelon tacos. I can entertain that, but given the choice, do not want.

You feel differently. That's cool. But your feelings aren't a part of the formula of my decision about how it will affect my operation. It isn't. You and @Seggy can be as energetic as you'd like, but at the end of the day, the people will ballots-in-hand aren't going to consider what you two think and have spoken of on an internet forum.

I've already said too much as it's largely wasted time and affects nothing.
 
Nick said:
I still don't think introducing them is a wise choice though. Things change and if CDO rules were to change for the worse it's an uphill battle and wasted negotiating energy just to keep things safe.
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I think that is a slippery slope. There are some pilots that are represented by the LEC that are rabidly for these provisions. Didn't a lot of ex-NWA guys LOVE their 'stand-ups'? As a LEC Officer you have to weigh large portions of your membership and try to come to the best outcome.

If you start trying to stop introducing things because one may think it is an unwise choice, where could that stop? Should FOQA and ASAP Programs be disbanded because things change and it might be opening a pandora's box with that data? Or do you make sure there are safeguards in place to protect the pilots with that data and take a best practice approach? Same thing here. You try to get what you think the best language out there for a vote. If it fails, you move on. If it passes, you educate the pilots on this new provision and make sure safe guards are in place to protect pilots if their is a disagreement in the language.
 
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Derg said:
I define it as "tired" and too busy to take a dive into the morass of internet arguing with people that don't have a vested interest in what I decide and have to live with.
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Actually, I do have a vested interest in what you decide to live with! It is the cornerstone of pattern bargaining.

If this goes to membership ratification and passes, don't you think my management team might try to get something similar on property at my place?
 
I don't want CDO's.

If you want them, draft a resolution.

We have an active alternative representation drive at SouthernJets right now and we cannot afford to bat anything less than 1000 right now. It's a clear and present danger.
 
Derg said:
I define it as "tired" and too busy to take a dive into the morass of internet arguing with people that don't have a vested interest in what I decide and have to live with.

We can "internet argue" all you'd like, but I'm on vacation and I generally have no interest in your views on the subject. I really don't.

I divide the world into three circles: Reasonable. Prudent. Legal.

What is legal isn't always reasonable.

What's prudent isn't always legal.

Personally, in my professional opinion, it's a step backwards.

Deductive reasoning and general law may indicate that if I like tacos and I also like watermelon, scientifically-speaking, I should like watermelon tacos. I can entertain that, but given the choice, do not want.

You feel differently. That's cool. But your feelings aren't a part of the formula of my decision about how it will affect my operation. It isn't. You and @Seggy can be as energetic as you'd like, but at the end of the day, the people will ballots-in-hand aren't going to consider what you two think and have spoken of on an internet forum.

I've already said too much as it's largely wasted time and affects nothing.
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Who do you keep responding to?
 
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