This is how cabotage starts

[Seggy]

Concerning cabotage, one needs to take a look at the complete incompetence the Malaysian Government has demonstrated to the world in their handling of their missing airliner. Not only is it incompetence, but cultural norms in their society are influencing the investigation with grave results.

While our system is by no means perfect are we really going to expect Ireland, Thailand, or Singapore to handle a high profile incident like this better? Can we expect those countries and others to be trusted with the flying publics safety in their regulation when companies such as Norweigian Air International are using them as a 'flag of convenience' country to avoid regulation?

I don't think so.

 

[SteveC]

Concerning cabotage, one needs to take a look at the complete incompetence the Malaysian Government has demonstrated to the world in their handling of their missing airliner. Not only is it incompetence, but cultural norms in their society are influencing the investigation with grave results.

I'll admit that I have watched very little TV news concerning this event, so I guess I'm out of the loop. Can you describe the incompetence that you are talking about?

 

[Seggy]

I'll admit that I have watched very little TV news concerning this event, so I guess I'm out of the loop. Can you describe the incompetence that you are talking about?

Well for one, if this happened in the United States they would have already searched the crews home, emails, contact their family pretty shortly after the accident to talk to, the Malaysians have only done so in the last 36 hours. They would have taken a larger lead in the SAR role but it has seemed to be a free for all. Also, why is it taking them a week to shift the SAR area even though their radar was painting a different picture? There are numerous other reasons pointed out in the accident thread.

Like the Koreans in Asiana, the Malaysians are trying to save face.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

Well for one, if this happened in the United States they would have already searched the crews home, emails, contact their family pretty shortly after the accident to talk to, the Malaysians have only done so in the last 36 hours. They would have taken a larger lead in the SAR role but it has seemed to be a free for all. Also, why is it taking them a week to shift the SAR area even though their radar was painting a different picture? There are numerous other reasons pointed out in the accident thread.

Like the Koreans in Asiana, the Malaysians are trying to save face.

The whole thing stinks over there of incompetence, cover up, changing stories etc.

On the Cabotage front this is exactly something some in our current government administration would probably think is a good idea.

 

[Seggy]

If you are trying to discredit my position @SteveC, here is a nice article providing more facts on my position.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/w...cating-the-task-of-finding-flight-370.html?hp

 

[MikeD]

If you are trying to discredit my position @SteveC, here is a nice article providing more facts on my position.

All I would say Mark is "never say never", especially regarding a political hot potato such as cabotage. I would hate to see it happen, but that doesn't mean there aren't entities out there who stand to profit from seeing it happen. And a few incompetent nations, does not automatically cancel out the threat of something like this happening with a few very competent nations leading the charge and conning our own Congress with whatever special interests they see fit.

I too hope it doesn't happen. But like anything with politics and money, I never say "it will never happen". Got to always be on guard against these things, as stupid as they are, next thing you know they're on your doorstep.

 

[Seggy]

All I would say Mark is "never say never", especially regarding a political hot potato such as cabotage.

When did I say 'never say never'?

I would hate to see it happen, but that doesn't mean there aren't entities out there who stand to profit from seeing it happen. And a few incompetent nations, does not automatically cancel out the threat of something like this happening with a few very competent nations leading the charge and conning our own Congress with whatever special interests they see fit.

I know there are special entities out there trying to make is happen. I've gotten involved with our Legislative Affairs Committee and spent a few off days a few weeks ago in DC educating lawmakers about this threat. I'm working to counter it, that's why I shared my viewpoints in this thread in light of recent events.

I too hope it doesn't happen. But like anything with politics and money, I never say "it will never happen". Got to always be on guard against these things, as stupid as they are, next thing you know they're on your doorstep.

You have to do more than be 'on guard' against this. You have to be actively educating folks and giving money to PACs fighting this.

 

[MikeD]

When did I say 'never say never'?

Not quoting you specifically on that particular point, just a viewpoint I get from some I talk to who seem to think there's no threat of it because of things like safety records, or can't touch us on our own backyard, etc. Was making a general point on that, and how we indeed have to remain on guard, lest next thing we know it's on our doorstep and many in U.S. aviation wonder "how did that happen?"

I know there are special entities out there trying to make is happen. I've gotten involved with our Legislative Affairs Committee and spent a few off days a few weeks ago in DC educating lawmakers about this threat. I'm working to counter it, that's why I shared my viewpoints in this thread in light of recent events.

You have to do more than be 'on guard' against this. You have to be actively educating folks and giving money to PACs fighting this.

Agree. There indeed is a very real threat here, and one that (in my opinion) is always quietly looking for the right opportunities to get their foot in the door and get this ball rolling. Sure....things like the Malaysia incident and other examples of lower levels of safety and/or aviation management in general serve to make cabotage happening a lower probability; I still think the threat constantly looms, because there's money to be made by people who have the power to make this happen here in the U.S. (Congress), and with their lousy track record on many things politically, I don't put this one past them either.

 

[SteveC]

If you are trying to discredit my position @SteveC...

Did I post something to refute your position?

 

[SteveC]

Concerning cabotage, one needs to take a look at the complete incompetence the Malaysian Government has demonstrated to the world in their handling of their missing airliner. Not only is it incompetence, but cultural norms in their society are influencing the investigation with grave results.

While our system is by no means perfect are we really going to expect Ireland, Thailand, or Singapore to handle a high profile incident like this better? Can we expect those countries and others to be trusted with the flying publics safety in their regulation when companies such as Norweigian Air International are using them as a 'flag of convenience' country to avoid regulation?

I don't think so.

I'll admit that I have watched very little TV news concerning this event, so I guess I'm out of the loop. Can you describe the incompetence that you are talking about?

Well for one, if this happened in the United States they would have already searched the crews home, emails, contact their family pretty shortly after the accident to talk to, the Malaysians have only done so in the last 36 hours. They would have taken a larger lead in the SAR role but it has seemed to be a free for all. Also, why is it taking them a week to shift the SAR area even though their radar was painting a different picture? There are numerous other reasons pointed out in the accident thread.

Like the Koreans in Asiana, the Malaysians are trying to save face.

If you are trying to discredit my position @SteveC, here is a nice article providing more facts on my position.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/w...cating-the-task-of-finding-flight-370.html?hp

Did I post something to refute your position?

The only question in this exchange that does not appear to have been answered was from me to you, not the other way around.

Ref: https://jetcareers.com/forums/threads/a320-low-pass-for-seggy.199642/page-2#post-2284013

 

[Seggy]

The only question in this exchange that does not appear to have been answered was from me to you, not the other way around.

Ref: https://jetcareers.com/forums/threads/a320-low-pass-for-seggy.199642/page-2#post-2284013

The pattern is that you love to poke and prod at my posts and points, expect me to answer you, and then silence.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Anybody want to post the advertisement campaign poster that ALPA put out on this recently.


TP

 

[Seggy]

Here you go....

http://sos.alpa.org/portals/1/SOS/WashPo_12x21in_ALPA-3.pdf

 

[SteveC]

The pattern is that you love to poke and prod at my posts and points, expect me to answer you, and then silence.

You should seriously go back and read that exchange again and find where I ever disagreed with a single word you said.

 

[Pépé le Pilot]

I'd really love to have the two of you in my cockpit during a 14hrs flight....

 

[Seggy]

I'd really love to have the two of you in my cockpit during a 14hrs flight....

Awwww thanks!

There are a few folks on here who I flew with and (at least one) I have lived with (@jynxyjoe). Wish I could fly with you as well!

 

[Seggy]

You should seriously go back and read that exchange again and find where I ever disagreed with a single word you said.

I don't know man. You just love to ask me a question and then when I do answer it's silent. Usually there are comments/follow up when I (or others) ask a question. Hence why my statement.

 

[SteveC]

I don't know man. You just love to ask me a question and then when I do answer it's silent. Usually there are comments/follow up when I (or others) ask a question. Hence why my statement.

I thought the issue was my not answering questions that you specifically posted to me. Did I misunderstand your original contention? Before moving on are we ok on that point?



If you are actually saying that I am not giving you feedback when you answer questions that I pose....well...that's certainly a different issue than what I've been trying to address with you so far. Moving targets can be difficult and frustrating as I'm sure you know, so please have patience with me as I work to clarify what ever your problem is with my posting style.

In fact if this is your point (and I'm not at all sure I'm heading down the correct road yet), then I guess I would have to agree with you that I probably do "that" fairly regularly. And by "that" I mean that I ask you a question, either for clarification or to highlight a point, and then you answer, and then I leave it there. Yes, I do that on occasion.

As you are surely aware, if I feel I need further clarification of your answer, or if I choose to have further public discourse with you on that topic, I type more. I'm not shy about typing more.

If I choose not to type more it could be for any number of reasons that are typically so case-by-case specific I'm not going to try to list them all here, but I think that you can safely assume that it is a conscious decision on my part at least 50% of the time. While there are certainly too many possible reasons that I make this decision to post a definitive list here, I suppose I could give a few generic examples. They might include: 1) you satisfactorily clarified my question; b) as my father is fond of saying "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all"; 3) I disagree with your answer but have no desire to debate you on the topic; d) I agree with your answer but didn't feel a need to feed your ego by saying so; 5) I completely forgot about the conversation. [\incomplete list]

My only suggestion to you is that if you feel a need to know my opinion about something that you have addressed to me, you may feel free to choose whatever example above meets your preconceived notion of my position, or you could simply ask. Ball is in your court.

 

[Seggy]

I thought the issue was my not answering questions that you specifically posted to me. Did I misunderstand your original contention? Before moving on are we ok on that point?

No you didn't misunderstand my original contention. BTW, contention is a bad word to describe it. I was just pointing it out. You seem to poke and prod, but when I answer and want to engage you, you seem to drop it. By not engaging it leaves with the impression that you don't give a rat's ass about what someone is saying. If you don't that is fine. But why even bother with the question if you are aren't going to engage the return?

Ball is in your court.

Ball is in my court over what? Are we in negotiations? Are we dating and I need to call you to see what are plans are this weekend? I didn't know it is so formal on here. I just made an observation and wanted to point it out to you.

 

[SteveC]

No you didn't misunderstand my original contention. BTW, contention is a bad word to describe it. I was just pointing it out. You seem to poke and prod, but when I answer and want to engage you, you seem to drop it. By not engaging it leaves with the impression that you don't give a rat's ass about what someone is saying. If you don't that is fine. But why even bother with the question if you are aren't going to engage the return?

If I have received an answer that I'm looking for, or feel that I have adequately made my point, either to you or to others, then I may not see the need to engage further. If at the point that I have disengaged you feel unsatisfied with where the discussion has been left and want to discuss further, by all means quote me and ask what you want. This is all that I was trying to say with the term "the ball is in your court". Just trying to say I am content with the status quo, and thus it then becomes your decision to continue or not.

Just keep in mind that I do not agree that your tagging me with some statement that doesn't directly address what I have said constitutes a request to continue a discussion. You have a bad habit of making an assumption about my thoughts on a topic, throw out a counter-point, then expect me to respond and defend a position that I never made. I refuse to be put into a corner that you have defined for me. As an example of that kind of behavior go back and look at the compilation that I put together in post #170 above.