New Eagle TA

Derg said:
Personally, if you're running a family awareness event in my town, all the bounce houses, Ball Park franks individual bags of chips from Costco aren't going to drag me out. Offer me some free beer, you're on! :)
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Bet some free Bill Johnson's would have you attending...
 
JohnGardner said:
The problem is that there is a small group of disgruntled former union volunteers actively sewing seeds of division by spreading disinformation in an attempt to make the current union volunteers the adversary. That is unacceptable. As the com chair, I will try to blunt any attempts to sway pilot vote inappropriately, regardless of who they are or what they are attempting. Fortunately,for the most part this small group is failing in their attempts, and actually solidifying some who would vote no, which is not what this small group wants to do.
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Funny I seem to remember you being part of the "small group" with the last leadership. So really it is just grown man acting like little boys on both sides.
 
My problem is not with the family awareness events as all pilots are welcome to attend. My problem is with all the extravagant meals and outrageous alcohol purchases by union members with union funds. The argument on where the money comes from is irrelevant (unless it is from their personal account) as union money is money assessed on the membership (local or national) to support union functions. I do not condone having mine nor anyone else's union dues pay for $200/pp dinners and $800 alcohol tabs. Looks like it was a good ol boys club to me.
Anyone who thinks this is okay will never have my vote of confidence and you can kick and scream all you want. It just shows your true colors.
 
MikeD said:
Bet some free Bill Johnson's would have you attending...
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everybody-got-time-for-that.jpg
 
Seggy said:
Did you write the update after the first time y'all voted for this TA?
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Haha I read the earlier posts that suggested I wrote that com unilaterally and just blasted it out, like, "somebody hold my beer while I get my COM on!"

Like most of the communication, there were a few people involved, but that is in editing what I write. I wrote it substantially, and after some editing, it was sent out. The concepts came from meetings with other officers.
 
JohnGardner said:
Either you are unaware of the depth of the corruption of the previous eagle MEC, or you know and are covering. Your relationship with Special Jared is cute, but be careful who you sidle up to. Jared was throttled by his team recently, because they really don't want to revisit the issue, and throwing down a challenge like "why didn't you keep digging" is simply not a good idea for them. I will never have to worry about someone asking me to repay to ALPA a single nickel of reimbursed funds. Some others already have that box checked and don't want to have the subject brought back up.
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@ATN_Pilot knows more about what was/is going on than you will ever know. He can see things you can't. A smart person would use this website to network with guys like him. Hint Hint
 
Instead of talking about the TA, we're talking about
JohnGardner said:
So a guy who openly touts as "money well-spent" booze at family awareness event, because it gets the message spread, in an industry with some high profile black eyes involving drunk pilots on duty, in an environment where a single DUI can severely damage or kill your career - touts this as a good idea - makes the highly-intellectual argument that to disagree makes you "retarded"? Oh yeah, you are a true leader, thanks for your lifetime union achievements. And after your man-crush comments about Bill C, I'm sure he and the prez would love to see you posting this on a forum.

Either you are unaware of the depth of the corruption of the previous eagle MEC, or you know and are covering. Your relationship with Special Jared is cute, but be careful who you sidle up to. Jared was throttled by his team recently, because they really don't want to revisit the issue, and throwing down a challenge like "why didn't you keep digging" is simply not a good idea for them. I will never have to worry about someone asking me to repay to ALPA a single nickel of reimbursed funds. Some others already have that box checked and don't want to have the subject brought back up.

As for B scale, believe what you like. I know the truth and many other do too. Jared didn't say they didn't dream it up. He said Kirby presented it to them. Well crafted, false impression.
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Listen, hot dog, you're running at the mouth like a rabid racoon, but your bark is still louder than your bite.

You have no facts, just slander. If you want to discuss the merits and demerits of the TA, why can't you simply do that? Everything you've said here is a lie.
 
OMG, the plane is going down!

"BEEEEENG BONG… the passenger in 14A is concerned if he'll get frequent flier miles"
 
JohnGardner said:
So a guy who openly touts as "money well-spent" booze at family awareness event, because it gets the message spread, in an industry with some high profile black eyes involving drunk pilots on duty, in an environment where a single DUI can severely damage or kill your career - touts this as a good idea - makes the highly-intellectual argument that to disagree makes you "retarded"? Oh yeah, you are a true leader, thanks for your lifetime union achievements.
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Are you some sort of religious fundamentalist or something? Because unless you are, I just can't imagine an airline pilot having such a big problem with alcohol at an event available to every pilot to encourage attendance. You know, unless your real aim is just to smear someone and you don't really care about the alcohol at all.

And after your man-crush comments about Bill C, I'm sure he and the prez would love to see you posting this on a forum.
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Seeing as how I talk to both of them regularly, I think I've got a better idea of what they'd think than you do. You might be interested in knowing that "the prez," when he was the Delta MEC chairman, put on an event for AirTran pilots when the ALPA drive was going on that included an open bar. He was smart enough to realize that getting as many pilots to attend as possible is what matters in spreading the message.

ALPA certainly frowns on abuses of money. For instance, a certain MEC tried to put on an event that we lovingly refer to as "the booze cruise," that would have involved an open bar on a small cruise ship that would have been chartered for an entire evening. The expense was denied, because it was considered wasteful when you can easily put on an event at a local restaurant for a tiny fraction of the cost.

But when it comes to open bars, that money is typically very well spent. How we generally like to look at expenses for family awareness events is "dollars spent per family in attendance." If you don't provide an open bar, you spend $2,000 on food, and only 10 families show up, then you've just spent $200 per family. If you provide an open bar, spend $2,000 on food, $2,000 on alcohol, and 50 families show up, then you've only spent $40 per family. Which is the better return on investment, and which reached more pilots?

Think instead of following the radicals blindly.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
But when it comes to open bars, that money is typically very well spent. How we generally like to look at expenses for family awareness events is "dollars spent per family in attendance." If you don't provide an open bar, you spend $2,000 on food, and only 10 families show up, then you've just spent $200 per family. If you provide an open bar, spend $2,000 on food, $2,000 on alcohol, and 50 families show up, then you've only spent $40 per family. Which is the better return on investment, and which reached more pilots?

Think instead of following the radicals blindly.
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That's why you advertise an open bar but then you have a bag of chips and dip.
50 families. $5. .10/per family.
 
Not a religious fundamentalist, just don't like to see dues money wasted. Glad to hear the line we draw in the sand is at booze cruises.

I've never understood the value of family awareness events as they are put on, and rank and file pilots in General will largely tell you the same thing. You say "reach" but what does that mean? Are you suggesting that the 50 families that show are families and pilots who could not be communicated with some other way? If you could support that, I would be right behind you with the events. But I find it hard to believe. The bankruptcy TA events were hugely expensive, something you know, and what was our ROI for them? Should I post some dollar figures? I'd be embarrassed to do so and I would hope you would as well. I'm fully aware that regionals often don't contribute numbers greater than needs. The airline managements know that as well, and I know I'm preaching to the choir. That is part of being an association. In the final analysis, what happens at eagle will to some extent affect the industry.

I'm not beholden to anyone here, I simply and firmly believe I work for the pilots at eagle. Good dialogue, here and elsewhere, even if it is edgy at times can sharpen our steel. That steel is wasted when we point it at each other. I will take you at your word that you have been a long time union soldier. Thank you.

Jared, I see your posting on other websites as well as that of your friends. You are doing the pilots a disservice with the organized disinformation campaign. I would love it if you would follow your own advice and stick to discussing the TA. We might all benefit from that.
 
Don't agree. When I was comm at Skyway I wish we could have done more family awareness.

You really have to hit people in a number of ways. Some people prefer email, some people prefer Gutenberg-era LEC meetings (w/Roberts Rules of Order), some prefer informal interactions like "pilot unity building" events.

Personally, and I do mean personally, I don't have a problem with using dues dollars for snacks and refreshments including alcohol.

We're adults and this is how we conduct business. The concept of thinking a modern industry is going to devolve back into one podium, one microphone held in a union hall is dead.

I've been a volunteer on a number of levels and even I find formal LEC meeting an absolute waste of time, but recognize that they're helpful to a certain cross section of people.

Hell I don't care if someone hits Costco for a couple cartons of Marlboro Reds to hand out at the door. If it gets people talking, sharing perspectives and communicating.... Do more.

You need honey to attract the flies. Some of us aren't going to waste the time unless there's some sort of "aww, what the hell" type incentive to do so.
 
JohnGardner said:
Haha I read the earlier posts that suggested I wrote that com unilaterally and just blasted it out, like, "somebody hold my beer while I get my COM on!"

Like most of the communication, there were a few people involved, but that is in editing what I write. I wrote it substantially, and after some editing, it was sent out. The concepts came from meetings with other officers.
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Let me guess, you didn't have the ALPA lawyers look it over before it was sent??? Or if they did, y'all overrided their inputs????

Because if you were so concerned about dues dollars being used properly you should have had the ALPA lawyers look it over.
 
JohnGardner said:
Jared, I see your posting on other websites as well as that of your friends. You are doing the pilots a disservice with the organized disinformation campaign. I would love it if you would follow your own advice and stick to discussing the TA. We might all benefit from that.
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Can you explain how he is behind a 'organized disinformation campaign?'

I would like to know, especially considering you put a comm out through the ALPA servers saying y'all were done negotiating with the company after the MEC voted down the TA, only to be putting one out to vote a few short weeks after your comm saying you were done entertaining offers from the company...
 
Seggy said:
Let me guess, you didn't have the ALPA lawyers look it over before it was sent??? Or if they did, y'all overrided their inputs????

Because if you were so concerned about dues dollars being used properly you should have had the ALPA lawyers look it over.
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ALPA lawyer right there, legal review and approved. Of course.
 
Seggy said:
Can you explain how he is behind a 'organized disinformation campaign?'

I would like to know, especially considering you put a comm out through the ALPA servers saying y'all were done negotiating with the company after the MEC voted down the TA, only to be putting one out to vote a few short weeks after your comm saying you were done entertaining offers from the company...
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I'm not going to explain Jared and pals. No one wants to hear it.

The com after the meeting didn't say what you say it did.
 
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