why is the payscale between two companies so different?

Boris Badenov said:
I think the ultimate reason I'll never fly for an Airline is that I don't have the attention-span to figure out whether or not I'm getting screwed. Line credit? Block credit? Deadhead pay? Cancellation? TRIP RIG? I thought a rig was something that attracted either lot-lizards or oil spills. Christ, just make sure the check arrives on time with the correct number of zeroes and the decimal in the right place.
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Nah it's easy.

Three day trip and your contract says you have a 5 hour duty period minimum so it effectively should pay at least 15 hours. But it only has three legs worth about 10 hours. That means you have 5 hours of credit.

Now you get cancelled on one of those three legs and have to deadhead. If you're paid straight time for deadheading, there's no money loss.

A crap ton of airlines don't have duty period minimums, full pay for deadheads and it leads to you spending lots of days on the road with low total, but potentially great hourly pay.

It's all about the language but also about the rates. They go hand in hand and primarily why it's challenging to compare contracts side by side.

Even the APA's recent contract comparison is somewhat of a joke as some things they say we have, we don't, things we apparently lack, we actually have and it's got some "interesting" future presumptions.

More money more time off.
 
b3181981 said:
I was browsing APC and couldn't help but notice, that an FO for Jetblue on E190 aircraft, makes more money that a captain for Republic airlines flying the same airframe. How is it that Jetblue can pay these rates for FOs but Republic can't for captains. I'm not trying to start a flame war, in about a year to 18 months I'll have my atp mins and I'm either going to the airlines, UAV's or back to turning wrenches. I just can't see myself working for a large chuck of money less than someone else doing the exact same job.
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One is a regional with a mainline plane. Ive even seen this senario with some regional planes too. Air Canada used to have E175s and pay their FOs similar to what a regional captain makes. Unfortunately they outsourced those planes a few months back.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I think the ultimate reason I'll never fly for an Airline is that I don't have the attention-span to figure out whether or not I'm getting screwed. Line credit? Block credit? Deadhead pay? Cancellation? TRIP RIG? I thought a rig was something that attracted either lot-lizards or oil spills. Christ, just make sure the check arrives on time with the correct number of zeroes and the decimal in the right place.
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Wait till you look at airline scheduling procedures.
 
Jet said:
One is a regional with a mainline plane. Ive even seen this senario with some regional planes too. Air Canada used to have E175s and pay their FOs similar to what a regional captain makes. Unfortunately they outsourced those planes a few months back.
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Hell, when the CRJ-200 came out, it went straight to Air Canada mainline. But they had RJ85s flying for the Jazz carriers at the same time, and soon the CRJ's went that route too. I'm curious as to what got the AC pilots to agree to give up CRJ and EMB-170 flying.

T/O w/FSII said:
tl;dr: a.net stuff.
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I wish I was that cool.
 
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ChasenSFO said:
Hell, when the CRJ-200 came out, it went straight to Air Canada mainline. But they had RJ85s flying for the Jazz carriers at the same time, and soon the CRJ's went that route too. I'm curious as to what got the AC pilots to agree to give up CRJ and EMB-170 flying.


I wish I was that cool.
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Cliff notes:
Government intervention. Seriously. The Govt of Canada legislated the work rules at AC. @TopperHarley might explain a little better.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I think the ultimate reason I'll never fly for an Airline is that I don't have the attention-span to figure out whether or not I'm getting screwed. Line credit? Block credit? Deadhead pay? Cancellation? TRIP RIG? I thought a rig was something that attracted either lot-lizards or oil spills. Christ, just make sure the check arrives on time with the correct number of zeroes and the decimal in the right place.
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Kinda funny, but this was part of the reason we never got trip rig at my former carrier. Few people knew what it was, and even fewer thought it would make much of a difference. They just concentrated on pay rates. The NC (negotiating committee) over there simply bragged about the percentage increase in pay rate, and that they're "on par" with the (current) ACMI industry leader for the 767.

Of course, all said and done, captains at the industry leader make roughly $40,000/year more for the same equipment.

So yeah, ignore all that stuff to the detriment of your wallet, sucka. :)
 
Seriously on the At Risk thing. Great Lakes is circling the drain, why not buy up their 121 and 135 certs, sell off the bros and most of the 1900s. Use the capital to payback debt/buy a small fleet of 402's or similar. The 1900s go on the cash cow routes, the 402s go on the smaller markets. Centralize the operation at DEN, interline/codeshare with the incumbent legacies, sell your own tickets. Let the airline operating in the market control the market.

So, whose got ten million they wouldn't mind parting with?
 
Its not just the regionals. I was just running some numbers, and if I fly six hours per day on my shift I make about $19k per year less where I am now than the other company.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Seriously on the At Risk thing. Great Lakes is circling the drain, why not buy up their 121 and 135 certs, sell off the bros and most of the 1900s. Use the capital to payback debt/buy a small fleet of 402's or similar. The 1900s go on the cash cow routes, the 402s go on the smaller markets. Centralize the operation at DEN, interline/codeshare with the incumbent legacies, sell your own tickets. Let the airline operating in the market control the market.

So, whose got ten million they wouldn't mind parting with?
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What does that ten million buy you? $32M in debt. Sounds scary. But then consider $82M of assets, including about $50M of airplanes.

I'm in, but sod running an airline. Buy it for ten mill and asset strip.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I think the ultimate reason I'll never fly for an Airline is that I don't have the attention-span to figure out whether or not I'm getting screwed. Line credit? Block credit? Deadhead pay? Cancellation? TRIP RIG? I thought a rig was something that attracted either lot-lizards or oil spills. Christ, just make sure the check arrives on time with the correct number of zeroes and the decimal in the right place.
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Affirm, bro. With you on that.
Complexity is generally the enemy of the good. Especially unnecessary complexity.
 
Crop Duster said:
Affirm, bro. With you on that.
Complexity is generally the enemy of the good. Especially unnecessary complexity.
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Ah, but that is where the money is. That's why my 50 hours of flying a month gets me 100 hours of pay... Yall keep working harder, I'll work smarter. :)
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
Ah, but that is where the money is. That's why my 50 hours of flying a month gets me 100 hours of pay... Yall keep working harder, I'll work smarter. :)
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I had an entire month off with 75 hours of pay quite recently.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Seriously on the At Risk thing. Great Lakes is circling the drain, why not buy up their 121 and 135 certs, sell off the bros and most of the 1900s. Use the capital to payback debt/buy a small fleet of 402's or similar. The 1900s go on the cash cow routes, the 402s go on the smaller markets. Centralize the operation at DEN, interline/codeshare with the incumbent legacies, sell your own tickets. Let the airline operating in the market control the market.

So, whose got ten million they wouldn't mind parting with?
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What they need are king airs. Can be used in 135 to carry 9 passengers and burn less fuel than the 1900s. The problem with 402s in DEN are the mountains. Don't think they want to hand oxygen to every passenger so they can go over 10,000ft. A T-prop does provide an extra bit of safety and the pressurization helps a ton.
 
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