why is the payscale between two companies so different?

thehobbit

thehobbit

Well-Known Member
I was browsing APC and couldn't help but notice, that an FO for Jetblue on E190 aircraft, makes more money that a captain for Republic airlines flying the same airframe. How is it that Jetblue can pay these rates for FOs but Republic can't for captains. I'm not trying to start a flame war, in about a year to 18 months I'll have my atp mins and I'm either going to the airlines, UAV's or back to turning wrenches. I just can't see myself working for a large chuck of money less than someone else doing the exact same job.
 
Same reason I do the same job as the ramp controllers in United's G-tower here at SFO and get paid half as much. They work for United, I work for a contractor that works for United. Contracted work in the airline industry will never pay as well as working for a mainline company. The whole point of airlines contracting out is to save money. While the airline itself doesn't dictate the contracted payrates, the contractor has to stay competitive and will pay as little as they can get away with.

Back to your example, let me give you a little background on Republic's 190s vs. JetBlue 190s. Republic first got those 190s to fly as Midwest Connect out of MKE, as a contractor for Midwest Airlines just like Skyway and Skywest had done. Republic's holding company bought Midwest and Frontier Airlines, merged them together dropping the Midwest brand, and then painted most of them up in Frontier colors(AFAIK one is still in Midwest Colors to this day, because they're classy like that) and started flying them on Frontier routes. While the planes said Frontier, and they were owned by the same holding company, Republic still ran the 190s as "Frontier operated by Republic", Republic hence remained a contractor, and the pilots were paid accordingly. Frontier was then sold off, and Republic stopped flying for them all together. Now, those same 190s are being flown for Caesars Casino's strictly doing charter work, and again, contracted. Republic has never sold tickets on those 190s as Republic Airlines and has only flown them where their partners wanted the planes flown.

JetBlue bought the 190s to fly in its own route network and flies them where they want when they want, and pay reflects that. But even so, JetBlue is an LCC that usually will be cheaper than US Airways, and thus US Airways is able to pay more for its mainline 190 pilots.

See the difference? I don't fly 121 yet, but my advice to you is never get too comfortable at a contracted company in any line of work. Get in, get experience, then get out. And its all about the company, not the airframe.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Same reason I do the same job as the ramp controllers in United's G-tower here at SFO and get paid half as much. They work for United, I work for a contractor that works for United. Contracted work in the airline industry will never pay as well as working for a mainline company. The whole point of airlines contracting out is to save money. While the airline itself doesn't dictate the contracted payrates, the contractor has to stay competitive and will pay as little as they can get away with.

Back to your example, let me give you a little background on Republic's 190s vs. JetBlue 190s. Republic first got those 190s to fly as Midwest Connect out of MKE, as a contractor for Midwest Airlines just like Skyway and Skywest had done. Republic's holding company bought Midwest and Frontier Airlines, merged them together dropping the Midwest brand, and then painted most of them up in Frontier colors(AFAIK one is still in Midwest Colors to this day, because they're classy like that) and started flying them on Frontier routes. While the planes said Frontier, and they were owned by the same holding company, Republic still ran the 190s as "Frontier operated by Republic", Republic hence remained a contractor, and the pilots were paid accordingly. Frontier was then sold off, and Republic stopped flying for them all together. Now, those same 190s are being flown for Caesars Casino's strictly doing charter work, and again, contracted. Republic has never sold tickets on those 190s as Republic Airlines and has only flown them where their partners wanted the planes flown.

JetBlue bought the 190s to fly in its own route network and flies them where they want when they want, and pay reflects that. But even so, JetBlue is an LCC that usually will be cheaper than US Airways, and thus US Airways is able to pay more for its mainline 190 pilots.

See the difference? I don't fly 121 yet, but my advice to you is never get too comfortable at a contracted company in any line of work. Get in, get experience, then get out. And its all about the company, not the airframe.
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Why doesn't Republic sell tickets directly to the costumer? As far as US Airways paying their pilots more, they don't from what I've read Jetblue pays their pilots more on the e190 than US Airways.
 
Boyington said:
Why would an airline give a contract to a company that competes with them? That would be a bad decision. And...who in their right mind would CHOOSE to fly on a republic airplane?
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I guess it would depend on the advertising campaign and the price of the ticket. ;)
 
b3181981 said:
Why doesn't Republic sell tickets directly to the costumer?
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Because, just like Skywest, Expressjet, Envoy, ect, they are a contractor. They fly jets for hire that the major airlines they partner with don't want to fly themselves. Someone has to do that flying, and since the majors back in the day didn't want it, the jets were given to said contractors and that's how this whole mess started. Why don't they do their own flying? Well, aside from the obvious and already stated competition reasons, lets look at Atlantic Coast Airlines. ACA decided to play tough guy with United, lost the contract, and re branded themselves as Independence Air to do their own flying with CRJs and A319s. Take a look at how that worked out.

As far as US Airways paying their pilots more, they don't from what I've read Jetblue pays their pilots more on the e190 than US Airways.
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You are correct, I suppose what I should have said was the earning potential is much higher. JetBlue pays more on the A320/E190, but going by APC, the current ceiling on wages for a JetBlue pilot is significantly lower than the potential wages of a US Airways pilot should they end up in the A330 or 757/767, both of which pay higher better than JetBlue. A legacy does more types of flying, which is a good thing.
 
mshunter said:
Thanks Obama?
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ThanksObama-44445.jpg
 
Airways vs. jetBlue pay...I was actually surprised, I guess jetBlue got a pretty big raise lately or something. I was looking at this over the last couple days because I got an interview at jetBlue but ultimately turned it down.

I was however surprised how high their pay was, their CA pay is WAY more than Airways, especially for the 190. Airways 320/190 doesn't approach jetBlue pay until 2016 when they get the large raise from the DAL/UAL pay parity. Also just reading the tidbits about jetBlue, it looks like they have an opportunity for lots of soft credit, where as at AA/US basically you have none. Me personally I love soft pay, it's money for not working. This would increase the jetBlue rate even more so in comparison.

AA/US does have a couple things, such as 16% 401k contribution, and health benies, which are worth something for sure. But certainly not enough where people are bailing on jetBlue to go there, yet people are. Also saw an Airtran FO was trying to leave SWA to come to AA/US, not sure why you'd do that?

I dunno. Everyone has their reasons I guess.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Same reason I do the same job as the ramp controllers in United's G-tower here at SFO and get paid half as much. They work for United, I work for a contractor that works for United. Contracted work in the airline industry will never pay as well as working for a mainline company. The whole point of airlines contracting out is to save money. While the airline itself doesn't dictate the contracted payrates, the contractor has to stay competitive and will pay as little as they can get away with.

Back to your example, let me give you a little background on Republic's 190s vs. JetBlue 190s. Republic first got those 190s to fly as Midwest Connect out of MKE, as a contractor for Midwest Airlines just like Skyway and Skywest had done. Republic's holding company bought Midwest and Frontier Airlines, merged them together dropping the Midwest brand, and then painted most of them up in Frontier colors(AFAIK one is still in Midwest Colors to this day, because they're classy like that) and started flying them on Frontier routes. While the planes said Frontier, and they were owned by the same holding company, Republic still ran the 190s as "Frontier operated by Republic", Republic hence remained a contractor, and the pilots were paid accordingly. Frontier was then sold off, and Republic stopped flying for them all together. Now, those same 190s are being flown for Caesars Casino's strictly doing charter work, and again, contracted. Republic has never sold tickets on those 190s as Republic Airlines and has only flown them where their partners wanted the planes flown.

JetBlue bought the 190s to fly in its own route network and flies them where they want when they want, and pay reflects that. But even so, JetBlue is an LCC that usually will be cheaper than US Airways, and thus US Airways is able to pay more for its mainline 190 pilots.

See the difference? I don't fly 121 yet, but my advice to you is never get too comfortable at a contracted company in any line of work. Get in, get experience, then get out. And its all about the company, not the airframe.
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tl;dr: a.net stuff.
 
wheelsup said:
it looks like they have an opportunity for lots of soft credit, where as at AA/US basically you have none. Me personally I love soft pay, it's money for not working. This would increase the jetBlue rate even more so in comparison.
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I think the ultimate reason I'll never fly for an Airline is that I don't have the attention-span to figure out whether or not I'm getting screwed. Line credit? Block credit? Deadhead pay? Cancellation? TRIP RIG? I thought a rig was something that attracted either lot-lizards or oil spills. Christ, just make sure the check arrives on time with the correct number of zeroes and the decimal in the right place.
 
Just a little food for thought.

Payrates only play part of the total compensation package.

If I made $X an hour at BigJets and the guy at HugePlanes made $X+25, it doesn't automatically mean that the HugePlanes pilot is going to have a higher W-2.

Trip rigs, credit, deadhead, pairing construction, training pay, etc. You have to look at the entire contract and that's something not necessarily reflected on a easy-to-click pay table on an internet website.
 
wheelsup said:
Also saw an Airtran FO was trying to leave SWA to come to AA/US, not sure why you'd do that?
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I can think of lots of reasons. But the primary one would be seniority advancement and the QOL that comes with it. Let's say the FO you saw was a junior lineholder at SWA. He's looking at almost 20 years to upgrade. If he goes to AA/US, he'll be a mid-seniority captain in 20 years flying 2 legs a day instead of 5. He'll be getting weekends off instead of wondering whether he'll ever get weekends off before he retires. He'll be getting summer vacation periods instead of October and February vacations. See what I'm getting at?
 
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